To All The Folks In the Past Who Told Me I Was Wasting My Vote When I Voted For Libertarian Presidential Candidates:

Do you still feel that way?

  • LoneSnark

    I'm still pretty sure the libertarian candidate won't win. Sure wish we had instant run-off voting.

  • http://contraniche.blogspot.com/ August Hurtel

    Why in the world would you think they've changed their minds? There are still many people saying that if you don't vote you can't complain, despite the fact that I have demonstrated that they are wrong since we were faced with McCain vs Obama back in '08.

  • frankensteingovernment

    We've been wasting our votes for the past 24 years. The suckers who win actually lose- that makes it the best game in town. The suckers think they won. Gary Johnson is by far the best candidate. I believe I'll waste my vote again- bcuz the lesser of two evils, is still evil.

  • Mercury

    Because now we have a libertarian candidate that has a real chance of winning?

    Why is this time different?

  • mlhouse

    If you put make your political choices such an emotional one, sure. But instead of personalizing it, evil versus non-evil, look at it from an issue perspective. What candidate represents the positions you support the most.

    While Donald Trump ranked 17th out of 17 of my preferred GOP candidates, he is going to be the nominee. I will support him because he represents the most overlap with my position on the issues. The chance that Trump represents the best chance to overturn ObamaCare alone should be enough for even staunch Libertarians to vote for him instead of wasting a vote on Gary Johnson. If you vote Gary Johnson that is almost equivalent to a vote for HIllary Clinton.

  • Joe - the non socialist

    None of the current three would qualify for a security clearance
    1) Bernie, whose first full time job was the mayor or a small vermont town at age 40, doesnt appear to the have the intellectual capacity to be president or have a security clearance
    2) Hillary - the national security violations are just a minor part of her corruption - left the white house with a net worth in the 2-5m range, now worth 100m-150m - the foundation etc - at little corruption here and there
    3) Trump - just another progressive democrat

  • joe

    Best chance of overturning obumacare when trump has repeatedly stated he is in favor of obamacare and/or national healthcare

  • mlhouse

    Hillary Clinton in the WHite House gives you exactly 0%.

    I don't think Trump has come out in favor of ObamaCare and I think his "support" of national health care is way overstated.

  • Matthew Slyfield

    Trump represents nothing, no matter what he says. He is the ultimate populist he will say anything he thinks he needs to say to get elected. However at the end of the day the only thing Donald Trump actually believes in is Donald Trump. The only thing that Donald Trump cares about is Donald Trump.

    If you believe that he will actually govern in accordance with his campaign rhetoric, you are delusional.

  • mlhouse

    I will take that chance versus the certainty that HILLARY CLINTON WILL GOVERN IN ACCORDANCE WITH DEMOCRATIC PARTY POLICIES.

    Trump cares about Trump. No doubt. But Trump isn't dumb enough to do the Iran deal that Obama made. Trump isn't stupid enough to do the "reset" that Hillary Clinton naively attempted with Putin. Trump would have probably avoided Libya, a huge disaster, that was the Obama/HR Clinton doctorine in a nut shell.

    Donald Trump will probably piss off a lot of foreign leaders and dignataries, but at least he is not going to aid our enemies at the expense of our friends and he for sure as hell isn't going to be caught BOWING to them either.

    THere is no way I believe that Trump is a perfect choice. But I do know what is an absolute terrible choice: Hillary Rodham Clinton (only Bernie Sanders would be worse).

    There are only two candidates that can win the presidential election in 2016: Trump or Clinton.

    The choice is very clear.

  • Maximum Liberty

    No, I have not changed my mind.

    But I might join you in wasting my vote this year.

  • MikeS

    Let's see ... Interventionist crony capitalist billionaire who hates civil liberties or an Interventionist crony capitalist millionaire who hates civil liberties.
    I think I'll "waste" my vote on Gary Johnson.

  • TDM

    The biggest waste is the Libertarian party not running a candidate in the Democrat primary.

    Paul (L) 2nd, Sanders (S) 2nd, Trump (I) Win.

    Why waste your vote with a third party when it has been conclusively shown that a non-party candidate can do well and even win a party primary?

  • marque2

    Um, yes. Still a wasted vote.

  • marque2

    Trump is needed to shake up the establishment. Can't believe all these people here, so anti-trump, when we have been complaining about the establishment ignoring us for years. Now the establishment will have to change and come up with new ideas, and new ways to present them.

    Warren has always been a bit of an oddball, not caring if disease, pestilence, violence, crime,etc is being rapidly imported from the southern border, because he has some sort of bizarre idealism about it. Oh, if we just showed the leaders of ISIS the wonders of capitalism, they would just run over, immediately get jobs and productive world citizens. A wall is a better answer.

  • marque2

    I don't know where this stuff comes from, yeah Trump never came out in support of Obamacare. He says quote "It's a disaster."

  • Matthew Slyfield

    "Can't believe all these people here, so anti-trump, when we have been complaining about the establishment ignoring us for years."

    So you will feel better when Trump ignores you?

  • Matthew Slyfield

    "but at least he is not going to aid our enemies at the expense of our friends"

    He'd aid our enemies just to line his own pockets.

    "THere is no way I believe that Trump is a perfect choice."

    Trump is a con man. What ever he says during the campaign, expect him to do the polar opposite if he actually wins.

  • John Moore

    Of course, yes. Unless both major party candidates are *identically* bad, vote for the one least bad. Of course, if there is *zero* chance that your vote will matter, vote for the cookie monster or a Libertarian.

  • herdgadfly

    Coyote is right. I will join him in voting Big L Libertarian this time - no matter who the party nominates. I do think that a big opportunity is being wasted by not recruiting Rand Paul to head the ticket.

  • Q46

    The chance of a single vote making any difference in a large voter population is approaching zero and particularly so when there is a choice of more than two, where the winner can do so with less votes than the others put together in a first past the post system.

    If a system of proportional representation is used, nobody gets what they vote for, but the candidate/party with the least votes will decide policy that the majority do not want simply because they will hold the balance of power in the inevitable coalition that results.

    Voting is not democracy: democracy is impossible in any but very small communities with few voters.

    The only value to voting is to make yourself feel better... 'I had my say'... but if you imagine voting has any tangible purpose you are just working yourself.

  • joe

    Trump frequently contradicts himself, often within a few hours.

    Here is a good list of his liberal/progressive positions.

    Anybody that is for Trump - is a fool

  • joe

    Trump frequently contradicts himself, often within a few hours.

    Here is a good list of his liberal/progressive positions.

    Anybody that is for Trump - is a fool

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435273/donald-trump-liberal-conspiracy-theorist
    sorry forgot to post the link

  • ano333

    "1) Bernie, whose first full time job was the mayor or a small vermont town at age 40, doesnt appear to the have the intellectual capacity to be president or have a security clearance"

    I just want to put my 2 cents in on this one. My neighbor's son in law has had a legit brain injury/issue since he was a kid, and he got a security clearance when he was in the army. To illustrate his current intellectual state, he insists that team Trump will be forcing a re-vote for delegates in Florida (due to some unexplained voting fraud issue) and that he will be elected as a Trump delegate.

  • ano333

    "rump isn't stupid enough to do the "reset" that Hillary Clinton naively attempted with Putin."

    Please. Trump had flip-flopped on Putin just like everything else. First Trump is saying he would get along with Putin better than Obama has. Now he is demonizing Putin and Russia in order to play on the fears of voters like you.

  • marque2

    OK Trump is a con man, and Jeb Bush wasn't? Hillary isn't either? Let's see all the establishment idiots are all in for themselves?

    At least there is a chance with Trump, and even if he is backed out at least we will have a fun four years rather than a drill preachy four - eight years.

  • marque2

    The wall is both a physical wall and a metaphors. Yeah the drug smuggling via tunnels is a minor route and would easily be solved if we spent money monitoring them and actually building a wall - you build a wall several feet below the surface as well.

    And as for Trump ignoring us, think of Pascal's gambit. He hasn't ignored me yet.

    So far all your posts are about you distrusting Trump rather than anything he has or hasn't done, nor have you established your apparent preferred status quo is any better, and your wall argument is lame.

  • marque2

    Actually the fact that Trump will piss off foreign leaders and dignitaries is a part of his appeal. Interesting that a people's uprising over status quo government seems to be happening world wide. Europe is seeing it, Philippines just elected a reform leader, Brazil is about to dump their status quo leader ... So he may have like minded leaders by the time he is in office.

    After years of the same old promises and solutions which never get enacted, what heck why not elect Trump. For all the hate, he can't do any worse than what we already have gotten, we may get lucky and it is better, and at least his term will be fun.

  • Matthew Slyfield

    When did I say I preferred the status quo?
    "
    Even if Trump is a change from the status quo, and I am not convinced that he is, that doesn't mean that said change would represent an improvement.

    Personally, I would have liked to see a libertarian leaning candidate take the Republican nomination.

    " you build a wall several feet below the surface as well."

    And they dig the tunnels deeper. It doesn't matter how high, how deep or how wide you build the wall, they will find a way over, under, around or even through. It's an arms race that can never be truly won. You want to stop the flow of illegals? Dismantle the welfare state.

  • Matthew Slyfield

    "At least there is a chance with Trump"

    No, no there isn't. Your chances with Trump aren't any better then with Hillary.

  • marque2

    Personally I would like God to come down, address us all aboutnthe right way, and select a leader for us to show us the true way. It's not going to happen, and Gary Johnson is not our saviour either. No-one pays attention to his flaws because he is inconsequential.

    As for tunnels, easily detected if we wanted to look, , it is also the most minor methods of the smuggling that is going on. Give me a break.

  • marque2

    Then you are in a hard place, my friend. Good luck to you.

  • marque2

    Yes the establishment National Review, the magazine that meant something 30 years ago. Let's ask Mitt Romney for details about Trump policy next - followed by an irrational Pro Cruz anti Trump rants by prophet Glen Beck.

    All politicians contradict themselves,and change their positions as it suits them. That is how you get elected.

    It is amazing that Trump is doing what needs to be done to get elected and he gets excoriated for it but all the other RINOs and establishment candidates get a pass. Trump may not be great but I am happy that he will probably crash the entire incestuous media/pundit/elite establishment organism.

  • marque2

    Why? You complain a lot?

  • http://contraniche.blogspot.com/ August Hurtel

    Rand could have taken Cruz's place if he had had campaign sense. The 'Detroit' thing was foolish. I don't think he would have beat Trump- because libertarian principle is too hard for the masses, but everybody is sufficiently tired of business as usual.

  • mlhouse

    Wow, I wish I was as smart of a voter like you, someone who will get Hillary Clinton elected because they are so smart they voted for Gary Johnson.

  • marque2

    Well Hillary gave away secrets, that automatically disqualifies her under normal circumstances from getting a clearance, but why not the other two?

    You went on to explain something else - which doesn't apply.

  • jhertzli

    A large Libertarian vote will be noticed by anybody running in 2020.

  • Duane Hershberger

    I am not sure Trump is, in fact, the lesser of two evils. I think he will lose to Hillary no matter how I vote. I will be voting Libertarian.
    http://otherclub.blogspot.com/2016/05/quo-vadis.html
    http://otherclub.blogspot.com/2016/05/rebuilding-america.html
    http://otherclub.blogspot.com/2016/05/im-classical-liberal.html

  • Rich R

    This isn't about winning THIS election folks. As one commenter stated, Trump and Hillary are not that much unlike. Both are basically interventionist crony-capitalists. Unless you really think Trump will keep SCOTUS form leaning further left, then it doesn't matter which one wins.

    This election is about getting more people to look at and think about the Libertarian party as a real choice vice some fringe group like the Green Party. I have already turned convinced several of my traditional GOP/DEM voting friends and co-workers to actually consider Johnson. Making a respectable showing this year means we actually have a shot in 2020 and in many Governor races between now and then.

    Let everyone else play the short game, we need to be playing the long game.

  • jdgalt

    Rand Paul is actually doing substantial good in the Senate. I hope he still can win reelection there.

  • jdgalt

    Because the two major party nominees have never been more alike.

  • jdgalt

    Half of all people who are in the US illegally entered properly on visas and overstayed them. No wall will stop that.

  • jdgalt

    Where's here?