Great Moments in Asymmetry

I accept the following reaction, as embodied in the last sentence, from the University of Florida as entirely rational.  However, can you imagine this same reaction if all the facts were the same but the genders were reversed?

According to University of Florida spokesman Steve Orlando, six out of 10 new UF students will be women in fall 2010, which is the largest gender gap favoring female students that UF has ever had. UF's fall 2009 enrollment was 54% female and 46% male, according to the UF Office of Institutional Planning and Research.

UF is aware of the gap but not doing anything to balance the numbers, Orlando said. But he said the school isn't discriminating against male applicants. "Boys wouldn't be admitted because they're boys," he said. "Girls are being admitted because they are doing the things to be admitted and boys aren't."

  • http://http//www.tinyvital.com/blog John Moore

    The blind hypocrisy of the modern progressives is truly astonishing!

  • Ian Random

    They usually sidestep this, by pointing out the disproportionate numbers in basically physical versus life sciences.

  • Jim Collins

    Maybe Title IX will start working the other way now.

  • DrTorch

    I think this is a benefit.

    Maybe we'll get men into productive jobs, instead of wasting 4 years, borrowing money and losing earnings, sitting thru quasi-Marxist lectures and Freudian nonsense.

    And in the end, how many graduates with degrees in psych, sociology, and restaurant/hotel management, does the country really need?

  • marco73

    I completed my undergrad in 1982 at UF, and my daughter completed her undergrad in 2009 at UF. Whenever I visited her on campus, I couldn't believe how lily white and female the student population has become. We had a lot more guys, and a lot more minorities in the early 1980's, than anything I've seen in the past couple years in Gainesville. About the only minority men you see are on the football team.

  • Uno Hu

    It seems like it should about be reaching the point that title IX will require either that the football team be disbanded (too much money spent on an all male sport, never mind what the ROI on this spend is) or perhaps the team can henceforth be half female.

    Either way, the LSU Tigers and the Bama Tide are in full agreement with the changes.

  • Dr. T

    I agree that the University of Florida (and other colleges and universities) are not discriminating against men in their admission processes. The discrimination occurs earlier when our grade schools, middle schools, and high schools deliberately follow policies and practices that make it harder for boys to do well in school. (I've posted lengthy descriptions of this elsewhere, including the Carpe Diem site.)

    On top of that, we now are drugging one-sixth of our boys because when they were in elementary school they couldn't manage to sit on their butts for hours straight listening to a teacher jaw at them. Fidgeting during class meant that the boys had ADD or ADHD and needed drugs. The DEA claims that amphetamines are one of the worst scourges of our nation, but idiotic pediatricians prescribe them (Ritalin, Adderall, Concerta and others are amphetamines or amphetamine-like drugs) to over 15% of our boys.

    By high school, most boys hate formal learning environments. Many boys have come to hate all types of learning. Couple this with the ridiculous notion that everyone should go to college (instead of preparing for trades), and it's no surprise that many boys are dropping out of high school or graduating but avoiding college. This would not be a problem if the boys had learned a trade, but most vocational education programs for teens were killed in the 1980s and 1990s.

  • IgotBupkis

    > I agree that the University of Florida (and other colleges and universities) are not discriminating against men in their admission processes.

    Oh, I'll concur that they aren't overtly discriminating. The matter is, though, that, as Warren suggests, if the genders were reversed, they'd be going nutso and screaming about how something -- anything!!! -- positively m u s t . b e . d o n e!!! -- And now!!.

    That they aren't is likely to be grounds for a class action lawsuit for some bright attorney.

    The ERA may not have passed the nation, but it DID pass in Florida -- the Florida Constitution explicitly contains a clause that DOES bar unequal treatment based on gender -- and that there IS this "ho-hum" attitude when we all know how it would be the other way around is prime inventive territory for some bright boy attorney looking to make a name for himself.

  • Dale

    I’m a day late but here’s my take on it. I’m 63 and when I was a boy we were expected to sit on our butts for hours on end, or it sure felt like that, while the teacher jawed at us, nor were we given drugs to do it, so what has changed? And please note that in my day when a lot of boys got out of High School they were ready for more education. Dr. T, your comments add a lot to this blog but expecting a boy to set still and pay attention in class is not something new. I do agree that the problem is starting way before boys reach collage age, but I suspect that the problem in inherently one of discipline, and that’s something that drugs cannot instill in a boy. Oh, one other thing, we seem to be hell bent on feminizing boys. In our current society it’s not ok to be a boy. At least not at school.

  • Russ R.

    According to the Florida Department of Corrections website, nine out of 10 newly admitted inmates were men in 2008/09, which is consistent with the gender gap favoring male convicts for as long as records have been available. FDC’s 2008/09 admissions were 89% male and 11% female, according to Agency Statistics.

    FDC is aware of the gap but not doing anything to balance the numbers. The system isn’t discriminating against females. “Girls wouldn’t be admitted because they’re girls. Boys are being admitted because they are doing the things to be admitted and girls aren’t.”

  • Russ R.

    Regarding my post above, in case my point wasn't evident, I firmly support the University's position here.

    Fortunately, the world is increasingly becoming a meritocracy, and institutions should no longer be tilting the playing field to correct "imbalances". I'm hopeful that someday soon "Affirmative Action" will be declared archaic.

  • Sam L.

    Maybe one of the reasons boys have problems is that recess and outdoor time have been reduced or eliminated. They need to burn off excess energy in order to sit still in class.

  • IgotBupkis

    > Regarding my post above, in case my point wasn’t evident, I firmly support the University’s position here.

    Russ, I'm not arguing for a change of standards, and I suspect most of the others here aren't, either.

    I'm saying that if the genders were reversed there's be Chicken Littles right and left caterwauling about how "something MUST be done!" to balance the difference. THAT'S SEXISM.

    The solutions don't necessarily involve affirmative action or changing standards. They DO involve the same sort of legitimate steps that might be taken by UF were it to attempt to increase female enrollment -- an increase in recruiting efforts for young men and an investigation into the factors which discourage males from attending college at UF, and perhaps steps to address those, particularly if they involve reasonable changes.

    Further, I will bet you that UF's College of Engineering, which almost certainly has an imbalance of males, takes direct steps to encourage females to become engineers. Again -- THAT'S SEXISM.

  • IgotBupkis

    > Fortunately, the world is increasingly becoming a meritocracy

    In my experience, that's complete BS.

    Companies nowadays -- even moreso now with the job market as it is -- will fire you at the drop of a hat for the most bogus reasons imaginable which have not one single solitary thing to do with your ability to do the job, or the quality of the work you do. In many jobs, you can work 10 hours of overtime a week, but if you're 5 minutes late on a regular basis, they'll can your ass -- even if the job you're doing is specifically not one requiring 1-1 presence in the company, where someone else's effectiveness is reduced by such.

    They TALK a lot about merit. But as it goes, "After all is Said And Done, a lot more has been Said than Done"

  • Bob

    >>Further, I will bet you that UF’s College of Engineering, which almost certainly has an imbalance of >>males, takes direct steps to encourage females to become engineers. Again — THAT’S SEXISM.

    I'm a recent graduate of UF's College of Engineering and you're correct that they strongly encourage women and minorities to get into engineering. Special workshops, initiatives, and the like. Not to mention that women outnumbered men as engineering interns 2 to 1 in my experience.

  • Russ R.

    "I’m saying that if the genders were reversed there’s be Chicken Littles right and left caterwauling about how “something MUST be done!” to balance the difference. THAT’S SEXISM."

    So let me get this straight. You're creating a hypothetical situation, postulating how certain people might respond in that imaginary setting, and then accusing them of "SEXISM" (in all caps no less) in your own alternate reality.

    Now, I'm aware that in the real world there have been a number of institutions promoting all sorts of "diversity quotas" or whatever you want to call them. Fortunately, I'm seeing increased opposition to such actions (e.g. California's Proposition 209), as well as legal decisions (e.g. Gratz v. Bollinger) restricting such admissions quotas (at least in state schools). In everyplace I've either studied or worked, "diversity measures" were always met with skepticism, eye-rolling, and sometimes even overt hostility.

    "The solutions don’t necessarily involve affirmative action or changing standards."

    Why does a gender imbalance need a "solution"? I don't even see how it's a problem.

    There are gender imbalances everywhere, from taxi drivers, computer engineers, and infantry sergeants, to midwifes, exotic dancers, and primary school teachers. None of these imbalances require correcting (as I pointed out above with the Dept. of Corrections)... why should the UF student body?

    "In my experience, that’s complete BS... They TALK a lot about merit. But as it goes, “After all is Said And Done, a lot more has been Said than Done“"

    In my experience, people who complain that their 'merit' isn't being recognized in the workplace, tend to be overestimating their merit.

    Yes, companies undoubtedly come up with contrived reasons for terminating employees... and there are usually two reasons why: First, the employee is generating less value than his/her cost, and is a drag on their manager's P/L. Second, the employee may be a financially worth keeping, but is so disliked by management or co-workers that any excuse to replace the individual will be found. Nobody who's both well-liked AND net P/L positive ever gets turfed for trivialities. On the contrary, managers will frequently overlook minor (and occasionally major) shortcomings to avoid losing a valuable employee. At least smart managers will.

  • http://whatevs.com George Whatevs

    Them fuckas will get LAID!!!!!!!!