Comments on: Conflict of Interest?

By: Nick S.

Nick S. — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:13:25 +0000

Guys, no car built this century should have any kind of engine damage if you put it into neutral with the throttle wide open. I had a ’97 Chrysler Sebring whose throttle cable was damaged when the car was assembled- the thing stuck wide open going up a hill. Having some experience driving, I shifted into neutral and pulled off the road. The engine revved up to redline, then the engine computer cut spark and fuel timing- the car dropped down to idle, even with the throttle plate wide open. In my experience, that car’s electronics were smarter (sanity-wise) than most cars built that era, but I would hope that ALL engine computers these days would have some kind of rev limiter.

Having an automatic transmission is no excuse for these people- neutral is between Reverse and Drive on every shifter I’ve ever touched.

By: Boglee

Boglee — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 17:12:58 +0000

Update…The March issue of Car and Driver has an article on Runaway Toyotas, the upshot is from 70 MPH
a V6 Camry takes 16 feet further to stop if the throttle is wide open. The key is to make a decision and STOP rather than to try and control the speed until the brakes are cooked.

By: LoneSnark

LoneSnark — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:08:20 +0000

My aunt refuses to drive great distances since her Toyota Camry tried to kill her last year. The throttle jammed on the highway and the poor deer panicked. Thankfully there was little traffic, but she was not strong enough to slow the car (presumably without engine vacuum) and all she could think to do was scream. Also, but her sisters in the car didn’t help, screaming at her as if it was her fault, until one finally woke up, around 100mph and with the brakes smoking, reached over and tried to take the key out of the ignition, shutting off the engine and saving all their lives. She still has that car, although it has been fixed so they say, but she refuses to drive on a highway, which makes no sense to me, as if it had happened on a city street they certainly would have died. But fear is often irrational, I guess.

By: anon

anon — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:15:37 +0000

“You can shift into neutral if necessary, but this will likely break something expensive in your engine.”

So will a collision at high speed.

Slap the f(^&(*ker into neutral and let the rev limiter do its job.

Don’t try to drive while standing on the brakes at high speed and pushing the “off” button for three seconds.

By: ParatrooperJJ

ParatrooperJJ — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:41:19 +0000

There are also some very smart people who think there is also a problem with the engine management computer. It is theorized that there is a intermittent bug in the computer code.

By: Boglee

Boglee — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:53:43 +0000

A while back, when the sudden acceleration thing was real big, I had a rental car (wouldn’t do this to my own)
and from about 50 MPH floored the throttle then with the other foot mashed the brakes. The car stopped. Longer than usual stopping distance and nasty noises, but it did stop. I suspect that most automobiles would do the same.

By: Ron H.

Ron H. — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:02:52 +0000

Highway – you may be right, but I would only expect Mr. Saylor to get a Lexus as a loaner car if he took his own Lexus in for service or repair to a Lexus dealer. I wouldn’t expect to get a Lexus loaner if I took my Tercel to a Toyota dealer. So I don’t know why he wouldn’t be familiar with the car.

And yes, I realize Lexus is made by Toyota Motors, but is not often sold by Toyota dealers.

By: markm

markm — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 00:57:07 +0000

When I learned to drive 40 years ago, stuck throttles were far from unknown, especially on the aged clunkers I drove for many years. Ice or rust might block mechanical linkages. Floor mats were often aftermarket, not specifically designed for your car, so seeing that they fit and wouldn’t slide around and catch the pedals was your problem. And everything was rear wheel drive, so slamming the brakes and locking the front wheels at highway speeds was really, really not the answer. I’m not a great driver, but I experienced more than one stuck throttle, and I dealt with them without even denting a bumper.

When you hit the brakes hard enough to slow down the driving wheels against an engine at full-throttle, the non-driving wheels are going to lock. A front-wheel drive still gives you some steering with the rear wheels locked, but it’s squirrely – and if there’s any difference between the braking force on the front left and front right wheels, it will be very squirrely. Even a very good driver would be lucky to keep the car on the road long enough to stop from 60mph under these conditions.

Except that a good driver wouldn’t keep trying to stop with brakes against a revved-up engine, but would put it in neutral, then brake to a stop. If anyone was killed by stuck accelerators, they ceased being good drivers when they panicked and forgot this. (Unless there are interlocks in the most idiot-proofed automatic transmissions that prevent slamming it into neutral at high speed?)

By: Highway

Highway — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 00:41:20 +0000

There’s more to the Saylor case than has been mentioned in this thread. First, it was in a loaner car, so there was an unfamiliarity with the vehicle, and likely unfamiliarity with the arcane shift patterns that Toyota uses. Second, the Lexus had a push-button start, and it’s likely that the driver did not know how to turn off the vehicle. In a Lexus, you have to hold the start button down for 3 seconds to turn it off again. If you push it repeatedly, it will never turn off (apparently Nissans *will* turn off if you push them 3 times rapidly as well, but this varies by manufacturer). Third, Toyota has reported that in that model Lexus, at wide-open-throttle, there is no vacuum generated by the engine. Since power-assisted brakes in that vehicle rely on vacuum, it’s likely that the driver ran out of braking assist, tied in with the next point: Fourth, it’s reported that the brakes were on fire at the scene of the accident. Just stopping will not allow oxygen in to start a fire, but modulating the brakes will.

It has been proposed that the driver in this case encountered the stuck wide-open-throttle, and attempted to modulate the brakes to keep the vehicle under control. This kept the speed to highway speeds, but also depleted the vacuum accumulator after 2-3 brake presses. At this point, with no power assist, it would be very difficult to apply enough force to get full braking power out of the car, which contributed to the crash.

The resulting advice is that if you encounter a stuck wide-open-throttle, apply brakes all the way to the floor and keep them there until you are stopped. You can shift into neutral if necessary, but this will likely break something expensive in your engine. It’s a better bet to turn the car off, to accessory mode (which hopefully won’t lock the steering), and if you have a pushbutton starter, push and hold it until the car turns off.

By: A Friend

A Friend — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 00:08:40 +0000

A comment to the Consumer Reports website test by Motor Trend and Michelin Test Driver Mac Demere says, “Sorry guys, you’re wrong on the second part of this. I’ve done this test in more than 100 cars, from Tercels to 911s. They all stop. Each one. Every time. With left foot hard on the brakes and right foot hard on the gas, the brakes in a moderately well maintained modern vehicle will always overpower the engine. I’ve done the test from well north of 100 mph. Makes a godawful noise, but it stops. –Mac Demere.” He’s the real deal. His bio is here: http://www.naymz.com/mac_demere_38493

I say, let’s get the real Mythbusters to test this. Meanwhile, I will get in my Prius and cheat death on the way home.