That’s true, simply because effective medicines actually DO things and must be taken with care in correct dosages, whereas homeopathic ‘medicines’ aren’t medicines at all, at least in the sense that don’t DO anything at all. They’re clinically inert, and hence, in themselves, completely harmless…as they’re totally ineffective. The same thing is true of chiropractic treatment (at least to the extent they’re really ‘chiropractic’), except these can actively cause damage if applied carelessly. Homeopathy has the sterling advantage to all quacks that it’s totally INERT, and hence cannot cause any harm, or anything else for that matter (unless, of course non-homeopathic components are added, such as herbs, ‘supplements’ and so forth that might actually have clinical effects).

Of course they can do great damage by making their takers think they’ve actually done something, when they’ve actually done nothing at all, and hence miss the chance for actual effective treatment. A lot of times this really doesn’t matter, as the remedies are intended for untreatable ‘illness’ or those which can be latter addressed effectively later….but in some tragic cases where time is of the essence, quackery like homeopathy and chiropractic can be real killers.

P

many thanks and my compliments on one of the most enjoyable comment threads i’ve ever been involved in – and not just ’cause i got to whine about my bad medical luck. differing opinions discussed respectfully! intellectual discourse without somebody getting mean and/or snide! rare stuff on the web – rare stuff indeed. see, THIS is why i come here, along with coyote’s unusual and interesting choice of topics. (would LOVE to hear from the chiropractor who thinks he can re-grow a severed arm. i’m fairly open-minded about that stuff, but….MAN. what’s next? magic beans?)

hell, if he’d just have nekkid women to illustrate his posts, it would be *perfect*. (“global warming results in swimsuit models going nude in an effort to stay cool. see accompanying photos.”) then too, how many blogs can claim a comment from ‘marla’ of ‘zerohedge’?

The best chiropractic care is given by osteopaths. I’ve heard of cures (two at least) to blindess by neck or back popping from both of them, but an osteopath is at least doctor enough to see that you are at the early stages of cancer rather than in need of an adjustment.

@me: quite right about the context of science as a human activity. You can’t always expect the best advice from a guy just cuz he wears a Scientist hat.

Whatever gets discovered or practiced you need to get ready for it to be thrown over board in the next hundred years.

P

Just wanted to point that out.

It should be kept in mind that Lister and Semmelweis did their work in the era before the formalization of science as a process, especially in the field of medicine. Things aren’t perfect today but the situation is nothing like what they had to fight against.

It was also real doctors who raised suspicions about Thalidomide and greatly reduced the usage of it before its effects in pregnancies became known. The modern regimes of testing evolved as a direct result. Things happen for reasons. Testing for teratogenic issues didn’t happen until there was an even that provide motivation. It is unlikely that there could ever be another Hitler in the Western world but this is only because the legacy of the original looms so large.

The problem with the two ‘cures’ you mention is the lack of any well understood mechanism for how they worked. This makes reproducing those befits for other patients very difficult, at best. Without that understanding it is impossible to prove you couldn’t have gotten the same benefit from falling down a flight of stairs. But we need some really solid research before we start recommending ‘staircase gravity therapy’ be widely applied.

We are still just getting started with understanding our bodies, how they work, how they fail, and how to intervene in a desirable way. I’m only 45 but the world of medical science offers a vast range of effective treatments that were only speculative or not yet dreamt of at the time of my birth. Yet my grandparents felt they were living in an age of miracles back in 1964 because of all the advances they’d seen in their lifetimes. It keeps getting better all the time and will continue (if we don’t destroy the conditions for innovation) but that will never feel like enough of you have a serious ailment that defies treatment right now.

I’m reminded of this Louis C.K. rant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOtEQB-9tvk

There is no mystery to what chiropracters are dong correct. It’s called massage. Done right, it feels great, has lasting benefit, and often just the attention from another human being has benefits. It makes an argument for the legalization of prostitution.

This has been known for centuries. The founders of chiropractic just made up a scam infrastructure to allow higher prices and protection from legal systems. On the downside, there are some bad chiropracters who have inflicted crippling injuries with their bizarre interpretations of ‘therapy.’

Ouch – I think I understand better what you wanted to say now. And my condolences on years wasted dealing with uncaring/stupid doctors while dealing with chronic pain. No fun. And: you’re completely correct in pointing out that the medical establishment fought tooth and nail against every single novelty.

That said, and this is the thing near and dear to my heart: these are people problems, specifically the abundance of morons everywhere. Having a title and an office says nothing about ones qualifications; most importantly, these folks have absolutely nothing to do with medical science, and *science* – ie a process driven by facts not opinions is the reason why the aforementioned novelties won out in the long run. So, I believe we agree after all.

Blame the morons, not the process.

PS: Chiropractors are an interesting case study – they get the job (removing pain for a while) done, but they have the most nonsensical theories and accompanying assumptions. So, we’re left with two groups of morons – the Chiropractors themselves (I had one seriously argue with me that in theory, the correct spinal adjustment could fix and regrow a severed arm. Go figure), who are doing something right but don’t know how it works and the establishment (which argues that Chiropractic treatments can’t really work, but, crucially, also have no solid understanding of when and how they do succeed sometimes). Some day, some smart soul will come up with a scientific theory of exactly how chiropractic care works and a decade or so later, it’ll be applied exactly when it is useful. Sucks to have to wait and get upset with both sides in this debate, though.

@plungerman and me: i’m no particular fan of ‘alternative treatments’, ‘eastern medicine’ or any of the rest of that ooga-booga stuff, but i do have some knowledge about the efficacy of western medical “science” and practice. i’m a chronic pain guy: cluster headaches. considered to be one of the top 2 most painful conditions known to humankind. (mothers say childbirth is *nothing* compared to cluster pain.) started having them at age 18. saw *dozens* of docs – not one of them took me seriously. “they’ll go away eventually”; “you’re too young to behaving those kinds of headaches”; and, my personal favorite, “i *can tell just by looking that you’re healthy* and you’re just here to score vicodin. get the hell out of my office.” that was the results of being “examined” in 3 to 5 minutes by the white-coated demigods, knowers of all things medical. so i suffered, how do you say, “indescribable” pain for 25+ years.

of course, i tried all the usual alternatives. chiropracty; acupuncture; acupressure; massage; fasting/cleansing; even had a swami gal chant prayers over me while i lay on a sacred rug and incense burned. no results. but to put it another way, i got the identical results i’d gotten from “real” docs, only it cost less. eventually, FINALLY, i got a doctor to pull his head out of his self-important, all-knowing ass and *LISTEN*, and i got some help in the form of strong pain meds. opoids, etc. didn’t stop the pain, because clusters are incurable, but did an adequate job of masking it, so i could at least function. this went on for several years. never improving, but the meds kept the pain at bay, although i’m sure the DEA has an inch-thick file on me.

then i heard about a very specialized kind of chiropractor. one who works exclusively on c-1 and c-2: the bones that will kill you if you mess with them. was going to ignore it – tried chiropracty, don’t believe in it – but i had a success story from a personal friend as a reference. so i went. long story short: within 2 months, my 25+ years of cluster headaches has been – it seems – *cured*. i’ve also met a man with trigeminal neuralgia – the other entry on the “top 2 kinds of pain” scale, and also considered to be equally incurable – who’s ALSO been (it seems) cured by this treatment.

so, seen in that light, what is quackery and what isn’t? i can make a case that the manufacturers of vioxx and phen-fen are guilty of criminal misrepresentation and fraudulent medical practices (“quackery”), as are all the docs who “read the peer-reviewed literature” (LOL) and pushed them on their patients. tylenol WILL destroy your liver quicker than any homeopathic medicine i’m aware of. and the ridiculous, laughable notion of “bone adjustments lead to better health” has resulted in a cure (up to now, anyway) of at least 2 “incurable”, astonishingly painful ailments. ailments whose victims are among the most likely in all of (non-psychological) medicine to commit suicide from the intractable, “incurable” pain. how’d that happen?

lastly, “me”, correct me if i’m wrong, but of the ‘triumphs of medical science’ you mentioned – antibiotics, surgery, and hygiene – didn’t the established medical poohbahs ridicule and fight these improvements when they were introduced? specifically in the area of hygiene, weren’t the great pioneers, lister and semmelweis, mocked and ignored when they announced their findings? didn’t it take some 20-odd years before their practices were put into place? how many died because of the arrogance and intractability of the medical profession while they continued wiping their bloody hands on their aprons and then starting a new surgery? tens of thousands? more? don’t get me wrong: i’m willing to admit modern medicine can do great things, when practiced properly. but – occasionally – **so can some of the alternatives**. it’s easy to mock the alternative med types: hippies, scam artists, ne’er-do-wells. not REAL doctors, by any means. OTOH, it WAS “real” doctors who prescribed thalidomide to pregnant women in the late 50′s. how’d that turn out?