Comments on: Wherein It Turns Out I Am Not Loyal to the US http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html Dispatches from a Small Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:41:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: D-man http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-29398 D-man Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:15:14 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-29398 When today's youth are facing 90% tax rates in another 10-20 years because of other citizen's "needs," where will THEIR loyalties lie? "Our country was formed by immigrants ... who fled countries that were doing what we're doing now." — Peter Schiff. When today’s youth are facing 90% tax rates in another 10-20 years because of other citizen’s “needs,” where will THEIR loyalties lie?

“Our country was formed by immigrants … who fled countries that were doing what we’re doing now.” — Peter Schiff.

]]> By: Jim Klein http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-29227 Jim Klein Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:55:52 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-29227 "entrepreneurial class" I like that. Who's that...anyone that can think? He's got one thing right---this sure looks like failure, and smells worse. “entrepreneurial class” I like that. Who’s that…anyone that can think?

He’s got one thing right—this sure looks like failure, and smells worse.

]]> By: Mark http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-29118 Mark Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:30:05 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-29118 So, he thinks Unions can help with the redistribution of wealth. Well, when the tax payer revolt happens (not if, when), he then can be tarred and feathered like all the rest of those who believe thus. So, he thinks Unions can help with the redistribution of wealth.
Well, when the tax payer revolt happens (not if, when), he then can be tarred and feathered like all the rest of those who believe thus.

]]> By: sethstorm http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-29059 sethstorm Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:05:36 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-29059 Seerak: Note that I do not agree with Stern in how he considers the only solution to be a Unionized solution. If you wish to conflate my support for part of the message with the rest of the ideas and beliefs of Stern, it would be wrong to do so. If you wish to continue with that belief, go right ahead. Do we kill all business for its corruption? Epobirs: The McCoys and Hatfields have nothing on the feud that business and labor have(and will have) with each other. I believe you're looking for "how those jobs came into place that are now unionized". My idea of loyalty to country is not merely to the changing offices of government. It is to the individuals that make up this country. For that, I am not ashamed to be a citizen, to be amongst citizens, legal immigrants, and law-abiding visitors. For those who wish to identify with this country but have deeper loyalties to elsewhere, they must make the choice as to which set of individuals they show their loyalty. I'm ashamed of those who confuse various despotic and/or stratified regimes (namely the BRIC countries) with places that have our liberties. While they may present a face of supposed economic liberty, it is not liberty. It is merely the sound of trains running perfectly on time, with perilous consequences for those who are not on time(and the concealment of such consequences from public view). Whatever your national or cultural identity is, I'm sure you're proud of it. Just don't get the idea that liberty just means an easily performed transaction. It also means that you were not pressured into the transaction in the first place. Seerak:
Note that I do not agree with Stern in how he considers the only solution to be a Unionized solution. If you wish to conflate my support for part of the message with the rest of the ideas and beliefs of Stern, it would be wrong to do so. If you wish to continue with that belief, go right ahead. Do we kill all business for its corruption?

Epobirs:
The McCoys and Hatfields have nothing on the feud that business and labor have(and will have) with each other. I believe you’re looking for “how those jobs came into place that are now unionized”.

My idea of loyalty to country is not merely to the changing offices of government. It is to the individuals that make up this country. For that, I am not ashamed to be a citizen, to be amongst citizens, legal immigrants, and law-abiding visitors. For those who wish to identify with this country but have deeper loyalties to elsewhere, they must make the choice as to which set of individuals they show their loyalty. I’m ashamed of those who confuse various despotic and/or stratified regimes (namely the BRIC countries) with places that have our liberties. While they may present a face of supposed economic liberty, it is not liberty. It is merely the sound of trains running perfectly on time, with perilous consequences for those who are not on time(and the concealment of such consequences from public view).

Whatever your national or cultural identity is, I’m sure you’re proud of it. Just don’t get the idea that liberty just means an easily performed transaction. It also means that you were not pressured into the transaction in the first place.

]]> By: epobirs http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-29003 epobirs Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:22:23 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-29003 Mr. Stern needs to be informed how those union job came into existence in the first place. Mr. Stern needs to be informed how those union job came into existence in the first place.

]]> By: MJ http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-28998 MJ Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:12:35 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-28998 Well, if that's Stern's definition of loyalty, count me as part of the disloyal opposition as well. Well, if that’s Stern’s definition of loyalty, count me as part of the disloyal opposition as well.

]]> By: Seerak http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-28986 Seerak Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:42:25 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-28986 True patriotism is to a principle, not the accident of where you are born. Loyalty Loyalty to America is loyalty to that principle which defined its founding: liberty, the principle of individual rights. Should America finally renounce this principle, it will be just another empire, no longer worthy of any loyalty. Those who withdraw their sanction of this monstrosity will now, as they did two centuries ago, be the true patriots. The supporters of empire, be they its active builders like Andy Stern, or their chauvinistic toadies, like Sethstorm, will be the traitors. True patriotism is to a principle, not the accident of where you are born. Loyalty Loyalty to America is loyalty to that principle which defined its founding: liberty, the principle of individual rights.

Should America finally renounce this principle, it will be just another empire, no longer worthy of any loyalty.

Those who withdraw their sanction of this monstrosity will now, as they did two centuries ago, be the true patriots. The supporters of empire, be they its active builders like Andy Stern, or their chauvinistic toadies, like Sethstorm, will be the traitors.

]]> By: Methinks http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-28985 Methinks Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:31:55 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-28985 You know, I used to be a flag waving American. As an immigrant, I really appreciated this country and I've often had to defend my love of America to my family in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. This constant need to explain forced me to really think about what America is and what I'm loyal to. I concluded that I shared the vision of the founding fathers of a land of limited government which served chiefly to protect individual liberty. That's what makes America special. That's what defines America and it's that principle to which I'm loyal. I realize the constitution has been systematically trashed over time. But now, I think we've reached that critical tipping point where the constitution is completely irrelevant. Thus, the only way to be loyal to America is to turn my back on the soft tyranny that has replaced the constitution. I'm happy to once again become an "enemy of the people". You know, I used to be a flag waving American. As an immigrant, I really appreciated this country and I’ve often had to defend my love of America to my family in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. This constant need to explain forced me to really think about what America is and what I’m loyal to. I concluded that I shared the vision of the founding fathers of a land of limited government which served chiefly to protect individual liberty. That’s what makes America special. That’s what defines America and it’s that principle to which I’m loyal.

I realize the constitution has been systematically trashed over time. But now, I think we’ve reached that critical tipping point where the constitution is completely irrelevant. Thus, the only way to be loyal to America is to turn my back on the soft tyranny that has replaced the constitution. I’m happy to once again become an “enemy of the people”.

]]> By: KR http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-28984 KR Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:30:48 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-28984 <blockquote>“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.” Seems I’ve heard that somewhere before.</blockquote> <a href="http://www2.law.columbia.edu/news/surveys/survey_constitution/index.shtml" rel="nofollow">Pretty sure that's in the Constitution, right?</a>

“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.” Seems I’ve heard that somewhere before.

Pretty sure that’s in the Constitution, right?

]]> By: spiro http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/11/wherein-it-turns-out-i-am-not-loyal-to-the-us.html/comment-page-1#comment-28964 spiro Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:23:58 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=9743#comment-28964 sethstorm, But that is the point, redistribution and union loyalty as American values IS his argument, and IS the argument of the current government. And, if not accepting those concepts as my "duty" as an American makes me a un-american, so be it. My allegiance to the government is always on a thin thread, but my belief in the human right of personal freedom is always strong. sethstorm,

But that is the point, redistribution and union loyalty as American values IS his argument, and IS the argument of the current government. And, if not accepting those concepts as my “duty” as an American makes me a un-american, so be it. My allegiance to the government is always on a thin thread, but my belief in the human right of personal freedom is always strong.

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