Comments on: Why is This Called “Green” Rather than “Theft” http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html Dispatches from a Small Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:12:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ryder http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-20288 Ryder Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:29:45 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-20288 This is so funny… but there is so much more to tell. I was attending the 31st annual “Health and Harmony Festival” in the heart of Sonoma County, California (don’t ask how I got there…) Of course this is dominated by Obama worship, green politics, vegitarianism…. and of course getting high and dancing to live music as a means to “change the world” after you are done buying your $30 tie dye shirt. On the stage, the MC of the show, between musical acts, asked the crowd of thousands… “How many of you have cell phones!?” and then offered this bit of trivial “knowledge”: “Where is the best place to recharge your phone… in your car, or at home?” Of course she advised the stoned masses that they should charge their phones in their cars… because “there is this little generator in there, which is running anyway, so you should use the free energy coming from it!” Astounding. A dancing hippie stepped on my lower lip as my jaw dropped. A woman dressed as a sunflower told her car driving “earth first” fan club to use gasoline to charge their phones. My plan is to get an electric car without batteries, and tow a gas powered generator behind it to power the thing directly. That way I get to claim that I am green, AND use the commute lanes for being so environmentally friendly. Why is it that support for the environment relies so heavily on stupidity? Ryder This is so funny… but there is so much more to tell. I was attending the 31st annual “Health and Harmony Festival” in the heart of Sonoma County, California (don’t ask how I got there…)

Of course this is dominated by Obama worship, green politics, vegitarianism…. and of course getting high and dancing to live music as a means to “change the world” after you are done buying your $30 tie dye shirt.

On the stage, the MC of the show, between musical acts, asked the crowd of thousands… “How many of you have cell phones!?” and then offered this bit of trivial “knowledge”: “Where is the best place to recharge your phone… in your car, or at home?”

Of course she advised the stoned masses that they should charge their phones in their cars… because “there is this little generator in there, which is running anyway, so you should use the free energy coming from it!”

Astounding.

A dancing hippie stepped on my lower lip as my jaw dropped. A woman dressed as a sunflower told her car driving “earth first” fan club to use gasoline to charge their phones.

My plan is to get an electric car without batteries, and tow a gas powered generator behind it to power the thing directly. That way I get to claim that I am green, AND use the commute lanes for being so environmentally friendly.

Why is it that support for the environment relies so heavily on stupidity?

Ryder

]]> By: Florian http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-20060 Florian Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:28:43 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-20060 The phrase "30kw of green energy in one hour " doesn't make any sense anyway. Either it is "30kW power" or "30kWh energy per hour". The phrase “30kw of green energy in one hour ” doesn’t make any sense anyway.

Either it is “30kW power” or “30kWh energy per hour”.

]]> By: Alex http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-19987 Alex Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:39:38 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-19987 What about putting these in deacceleration lanes? Sometimes you have to drop from 70 to 20 mph on that one little stretch, which I imagine converts a lot of energy to heat (I could calculate it, but it would be pointless because I don't know how efficient these bump things are). What about putting these in deacceleration lanes? Sometimes you have to drop from 70 to 20 mph on that one little stretch, which I imagine converts a lot of energy to heat (I could calculate it, but it would be pointless because I don’t know how efficient these bump things are).

]]> By: epobirs http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-19959 epobirs Tue, 16 Jun 2009 04:12:48 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-19959 The 'Office Space' scam has roots in reality. A number of people got away with this in the 60s before and couldn't be prosecuted without the banks admitting they'd been cumulatively pocketing vast sums of their clients' money. Changes in their accounting method to make things more honest eliminated the loopholes that were being exploited, applying the philosophical basis that if we don't own the scam, the scam don't run. The off-gridders make lots of claim but don't stand up to scrutiny that includes the criterion 'what is your time worth?' My mother can remember deliveries from the horse-drawn ice wagon for the family icebox (back when it was really an icebox) when she was a child but would never go back. I for one find it a major mark of civilizational improvement that I can have a well stocked refridgerator with a good variety of food available at my whim. I'd rather designate hippies as a food group than give that up. The ‘Office Space’ scam has roots in reality. A number of people got away with this in the 60s before and couldn’t be prosecuted without the banks admitting they’d been cumulatively pocketing vast sums of their clients’ money. Changes in their accounting method to make things more honest eliminated the loopholes that were being exploited, applying the philosophical basis that if we don’t own the scam, the scam don’t run.

The off-gridders make lots of claim but don’t stand up to scrutiny that includes the criterion ‘what is your time worth?’ My mother can remember deliveries from the horse-drawn ice wagon for the family icebox (back when it was really an icebox) when she was a child but would never go back. I for one find it a major mark of civilizational improvement that I can have a well stocked refridgerator with a good variety of food available at my whim. I’d rather designate hippies as a food group than give that up.

]]> By: Fred Z http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-19957 Fred Z Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:36:33 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-19957 Thermodynamics and the laws of conservation of energy: Lies - all lies. Thermodynamics and the laws of conservation of energy: Lies – all lies.

]]> By: Douglas2 http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-19956 Douglas2 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:17:05 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-19956 The fridge family is not just transferring the load from their refrigerator to their freezer. If you look at energy consumption and temperature difference, your average chest freezer is far better than even the latest greenest energy-star refrigerator. This is partly due to usage patterns, we just don't open that chest freezer quite as often as we open the refrigerator in our kitchen. It is also partly due to gravity, because when we open a kitchen fridge or freezer all of the cold air dumps out onto the floor -- but with a chest freezer, aside from the air disturbed by the suction and turbulance of opening the thing, the cold air still gravitates to the lowest place, which is still in the freezer. If you don't believe me search out the "off-grid" blogs and messageboards. People who are trying to subsist with solar, wind, storage batteries, and inverters are converting chest freezers into fridges by plugging them into 120V-AC switching thermostats. Crude, but apparently effective. I can't help thinking that they've never heard of a paraffin/kerosene fridge, however. Surely they could run one on something carbon-free like whale-oil. Part of no-fridge family's efficiency will also be mindset. When we moved from Europe to Tennessee we bought a big American side-by-side fridge because, um, I guess my wife wanted one. I took to rinsing empty milk bottles, filling them with water, and using them to fill the empty space/replace air/increase thermal-mass. It was part of the experience of living in an exotic place, and all that. In the home we are in now we are using what was sold to us as a "dorm fridge" which is still larger than the refrigerator compartment of our fridge back home, and a chest freezer. We aren't big on Sam's-Club sized condiment bottles, however. And if you are going to use your eggs in a few days, they don't need to be refrigerated if your house is cool anyway. And the whole case of cola doesn't need to be in the fridge at the same time. The fridge family is not just transferring the load from their refrigerator to their freezer. If you look at energy consumption and temperature difference, your average chest freezer is far better than even the latest greenest energy-star refrigerator.
This is partly due to usage patterns, we just don’t open that chest freezer quite as often as we open the refrigerator in our kitchen.
It is also partly due to gravity, because when we open a kitchen fridge or freezer all of the cold air dumps out onto the floor — but with a chest freezer, aside from the air disturbed by the suction and turbulance of opening the thing, the cold air still gravitates to the lowest place, which is still in the freezer.
If you don’t believe me search out the “off-grid” blogs and messageboards. People who are trying to subsist with solar, wind, storage batteries, and inverters are converting chest freezers into fridges by plugging them into 120V-AC switching thermostats. Crude, but apparently effective. I can’t help thinking that they’ve never heard of a paraffin/kerosene fridge, however. Surely they could run one on something carbon-free like whale-oil.
Part of no-fridge family’s efficiency will also be mindset. When we moved from Europe to Tennessee we bought a big American side-by-side fridge because, um, I guess my wife wanted one. I took to rinsing empty milk bottles, filling them with water, and using them to fill the empty space/replace air/increase thermal-mass. It was part of the experience of living in an exotic place, and all that. In the home we are in now we are using what was sold to us as a “dorm fridge” which is still larger than the refrigerator compartment of our fridge back home, and a chest freezer. We aren’t big on Sam’s-Club sized condiment bottles, however. And if you are going to use your eggs in a few days, they don’t need to be refrigerated if your house is cool anyway. And the whole case of cola doesn’t need to be in the fridge at the same time.

]]> By: James H http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-19954 James H Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:44:33 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-19954 It's not "theft", it is a redistribution of energy. It's not "fair" that you have all of this energy, and the store can't use it to run the registers as you drive by. It’s not “theft”, it is a redistribution of energy. It’s not “fair” that you have all of this energy, and the store can’t use it to run the registers as you drive by.

]]> By: Max http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-19951 Max Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:15:35 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-19951 Sorry, I have to comment, because actually dynamic branking is a loaded word. Usually, you should know that, dynamic braking is associated with trains that brake by using a chopper to translate electric energy into thermal energy. They create energy by burning energy over a resistance. So, no, actually dynamic braking is one of the most wasteful techniques known to mobile machines. There is a quite strong difference between dynamic braking and regenerative branking, which is different as described above =) Sorry, I have to comment, because actually dynamic branking is a loaded word. Usually, you should know that, dynamic braking is associated with trains that brake by using a chopper to translate electric energy into thermal energy. They create energy by burning energy over a resistance. So, no, actually dynamic braking is one of the most wasteful techniques known to mobile machines.
There is a quite strong difference between dynamic braking and regenerative branking, which is different as described above =)

]]> By: Dr. T http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-19948 Dr. T Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:30:44 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-19948 Did everyone notice the key phrase in the PR blurb: "power the checkouts". Not power the mall or power the stores, just the checkouts, and that's only when many cars drive into the garage. This system must have cost a fortune. I cannot imagine that it will ever break even due to the initial capital costs plus ongoing maintenance costs. I'll bet the breakdown frequency will exceed that of cheaply built escalators. The people that sell systems like this remind me of the old-time snake oil salesmen (or the current purveyors of quackery). The sales pitch is slick but the product causes more harm than help. Did everyone notice the key phrase in the PR blurb: “power the checkouts”. Not power the mall or power the stores, just the checkouts, and that’s only when many cars drive into the garage.

This system must have cost a fortune. I cannot imagine that it will ever break even due to the initial capital costs plus ongoing maintenance costs. I’ll bet the breakdown frequency will exceed that of cheaply built escalators.

The people that sell systems like this remind me of the old-time snake oil salesmen (or the current purveyors of quackery). The sales pitch is slick but the product causes more harm than help.

]]> By: brazil84 http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/why-is-this-called-green-rather-than-theft.html/comment-page-1#comment-19945 brazil84 Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:24:47 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8177#comment-19945 "what is the cost (in dollars and energy consumption) to build such a Rube Goldberg contraption!? That doesn’t look cheap, especially retro-fitting paved surfaces. In addition you need to manufacture generators, power lines, and install (power consuming) switches that alternate the power source to the grid when no-one is driving over your plates." Also, I imagine you will have to tear up the street in order to repair these things when they fail. "I’m skeptical you could ever break even on such a contraption." I'm skeptical too. It would appear to me that the main value lies in being able to claim you are green. “what is the cost (in dollars and energy consumption) to build such a Rube Goldberg contraption!? That doesn’t look cheap, especially retro-fitting paved surfaces. In addition you need to manufacture generators, power lines, and install (power consuming) switches that alternate the power source to the grid when no-one is driving over your plates.”

Also, I imagine you will have to tear up the street in order to repair these things when they fail.

“I’m skeptical you could ever break even on such a contraption.”

I’m skeptical too. It would appear to me that the main value lies in being able to claim you are green.

]]>