Comments on: Another Example of Hosing Creditors in Bankruptcy? http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/another-example-of-hosing-creditors-in-bankruptcy.html Dispatches from a Small Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:41:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: DrTorch http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/another-example-of-hosing-creditors-in-bankruptcy.html/comment-page-1#comment-19870 DrTorch Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:00:42 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8160#comment-19870 Thanks Tim. I agree w/ you, the franchise relocation fee is a legit one, protecting the other owners w/in the league. Vangel- I have no sympathy for the Phx taxpayers, they've been content to watch their gov't officials pull these stunts for decades. Certainly w/ the building of their baseball stadium, perhaps even earlier. It's pleasant to see places get their just rewards. Thanks Tim.

I agree w/ you, the franchise relocation fee is a legit one, protecting the other owners w/in the league.

Vangel- I have no sympathy for the Phx taxpayers, they’ve been content to watch their gov’t officials pull these stunts for decades. Certainly w/ the building of their baseball stadium, perhaps even earlier. It’s pleasant to see places get their just rewards.

]]> By: Vangel http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/another-example-of-hosing-creditors-in-bankruptcy.html/comment-page-1#comment-19848 Vangel Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:45:05 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8160#comment-19848 The argument about franchise rights is a very good one that will be hard for Balsile to overcome. (The NFL and NBA will oppose him as well because there is no way that they want to see a judge redistribute valuable property rights without league control.) The argument about cannibalizing the Toronto market is clearly wrong because the Leafs have had waiting lists forever and have no incentive to improve their product. There is room for at least one more team in Southern Ontario so that is not an issue. The conference issue is an interesting one. Frankly, I don't see why Hamilton being in the West is an issue given the fact that Detroit is a member of that conference. In fact, it might help those fans looking for more variety because the unbalanced schedule means that fans may not see a particular team for three years. My sympathy is with the Phoenix taxpayers but they will lose out no matter what happens because the subsidy was a bad idea. The argument about franchise rights is a very good one that will be hard for Balsile to overcome. (The NFL and NBA will oppose him as well because there is no way that they want to see a judge redistribute valuable property rights without league control.)

The argument about cannibalizing the Toronto market is clearly wrong because the Leafs have had waiting lists forever and have no incentive to improve their product. There is room for at least one more team in Southern Ontario so that is not an issue. The conference issue is an interesting one. Frankly, I don’t see why Hamilton being in the West is an issue given the fact that Detroit is a member of that conference. In fact, it might help those fans looking for more variety because the unbalanced schedule means that fans may not see a particular team for three years.

My sympathy is with the Phoenix taxpayers but they will lose out no matter what happens because the subsidy was a bad idea.

]]> By: Fred from Canuckistan . . . http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/another-example-of-hosing-creditors-in-bankruptcy.html/comment-page-1#comment-19841 Fred from Canuckistan . . . Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:45:57 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8160#comment-19841 Cool . . . hanging with the Crackberry inventor . . . you have some neat friends. Cool . . . hanging with the Crackberry inventor . . . you have some neat friends.

]]> By: Tim http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/another-example-of-hosing-creditors-in-bankruptcy.html/comment-page-1#comment-19821 Tim Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:20:11 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8160#comment-19821 Oh, another thing you're missing. Since the league provided operational capital, which is at the heart of the control issue, they're one of the bigger creditors. So, don't think of that extra $100m as the cost of purchase, think of it as a franchise relocation fee; that would give him the right to have league membership. Oh, another thing you’re missing. Since the league provided operational capital, which is at the heart of the control issue, they’re one of the bigger creditors.

So, don’t think of that extra $100m as the cost of purchase, think of it as a franchise relocation fee; that would give him the right to have league membership.

]]> By: Tim http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/06/another-example-of-hosing-creditors-in-bankruptcy.html/comment-page-1#comment-19820 Tim Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:17:28 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=8160#comment-19820 Yes. You are missing out on how the league is structured. An NHL; or any sports team, for that matter; is a franchise. And the league itself has the last word in where teams are sited, when they play, and how they play. So, Jim Balsillie has the right to purchase the Coyotes and can move them to Hamilton; but he doesn't get the name and logo, owned by both the current partership and the NHL; the use of the NHL shield; or the right to play in the league. Right now, he's essentially bidding on a very expensive pile of used hockey equipment. This is no different than any other franchise agreement -- just because I own a McDonald's franchise, I can't just move the restaurant where I want. By the way, the big problem with Hamilton is that it would cannibalize the market of two other teams -- Toronto and Buffalo. A lesser problem would be that it would require the league to realign their conference/divisional structure. It wouldn't make sense for the Hamilton Coyotes to play in the Pacific Division of the Western Conference. Yes. You are missing out on how the league is structured. An NHL; or any sports team, for that matter; is a franchise. And the league itself has the last word in where teams are sited, when they play, and how they play. So, Jim Balsillie has the right to purchase the Coyotes and can move them to Hamilton; but he doesn’t get the name and logo, owned by both the current partership and the NHL; the use of the NHL shield; or the right to play in the league. Right now, he’s essentially bidding on a very expensive pile of used hockey equipment.

This is no different than any other franchise agreement — just because I own a McDonald’s franchise, I can’t just move the restaurant where I want.

By the way, the big problem with Hamilton is that it would cannibalize the market of two other teams — Toronto and Buffalo. A lesser problem would be that it would require the league to realign their conference/divisional structure. It wouldn’t make sense for the Hamilton Coyotes to play in the Pacific Division of the Western Conference.

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