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	<title>Comments on: How Does He Do This With A Straight Face?</title>
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	<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/05/how-does-he-do-this-with-a-straight-face.html</link>
	<description>Dispatches from a Small Business</description>
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		<title>By: Pieter</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/05/how-does-he-do-this-with-a-straight-face.html/comment-page-1#comment-19201</link>
		<dc:creator>Pieter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 16:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7919#comment-19201</guid>
		<description>The carbon taxes that I&#039;m aware of are fixed price taxes per ton of carbon emissions. I can imagine no other setting in which coyote (and other commenters) would prefer the government to set a fixed price rather than let the market determine the price of a scarce resource. In this case, the resource is carbon emissions that can be absorbed by the atmosphere. 

I was going to write a long paragraph about how much better it would be if prices for carbon emissions dropped when emissions dropped, because of a weak economy or improved technology, etc, but you believe in markets finding the right price more than I do, so I&#039;m going to skip it. 

Not only does the cap-and-trade scheme provide better incentives to innovate, but the market price provides better information about the current effect of the scheme. Suppose a carbon tax was implemented, the economy grew and pollution remained about the same. Would this mean that the tax was too low to control emissions or simply that the growth of the economy was offsetting improved efficiency? What if the economy contracted, as it is currently? Would this mean that the tax was too high, or was the downturn just one of the normal bust phases of capitalism? There&#039;d be no way to tell. Under cap and trade, if the economy started to contract, while prices grew, it would show the cap was too low, since unmet demand for activities generating emissions was limiting the economy. On the other hand, if prices fell at the same time as the economy, it would demonstrate that the cause of the recession was not the pricing of emissions, but some other effect. 

If you believed in global warming and had a libertarian philosophy, I have a hard time imagining what system you&#039;d prefer to a cap-and-trade scheme in which the market sets the cost of emissions. If there&#039;s another system that you think can better cover the costs of a negative externality, I&#039;d be interested to hear it. Till then, I can&#039;t help but think that, since you don&#039;t believe global warming is a problem, you&#039;d prefer a regular sales tax to a system designed to significantly change consumption patterns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The carbon taxes that I&#8217;m aware of are fixed price taxes per ton of carbon emissions. I can imagine no other setting in which coyote (and other commenters) would prefer the government to set a fixed price rather than let the market determine the price of a scarce resource. In this case, the resource is carbon emissions that can be absorbed by the atmosphere. </p>
<p>I was going to write a long paragraph about how much better it would be if prices for carbon emissions dropped when emissions dropped, because of a weak economy or improved technology, etc, but you believe in markets finding the right price more than I do, so I&#8217;m going to skip it. </p>
<p>Not only does the cap-and-trade scheme provide better incentives to innovate, but the market price provides better information about the current effect of the scheme. Suppose a carbon tax was implemented, the economy grew and pollution remained about the same. Would this mean that the tax was too low to control emissions or simply that the growth of the economy was offsetting improved efficiency? What if the economy contracted, as it is currently? Would this mean that the tax was too high, or was the downturn just one of the normal bust phases of capitalism? There&#8217;d be no way to tell. Under cap and trade, if the economy started to contract, while prices grew, it would show the cap was too low, since unmet demand for activities generating emissions was limiting the economy. On the other hand, if prices fell at the same time as the economy, it would demonstrate that the cause of the recession was not the pricing of emissions, but some other effect. </p>
<p>If you believed in global warming and had a libertarian philosophy, I have a hard time imagining what system you&#8217;d prefer to a cap-and-trade scheme in which the market sets the cost of emissions. If there&#8217;s another system that you think can better cover the costs of a negative externality, I&#8217;d be interested to hear it. Till then, I can&#8217;t help but think that, since you don&#8217;t believe global warming is a problem, you&#8217;d prefer a regular sales tax to a system designed to significantly change consumption patterns.</p>
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		<title>By: kebko</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/05/how-does-he-do-this-with-a-straight-face.html/comment-page-1#comment-19148</link>
		<dc:creator>kebko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 21:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7919#comment-19148</guid>
		<description>Kevin Drum will probably be relatively pleased with the outcome, because it&#039;s not very satisfying to have millions of faceless, self-interested actors solve your problems for you.  But it is satisfying to go vote or protest with some self-righteous idea.  You know you did your part, and you fought for what&#039;s right with like minded people.  And, for all eternity, you can sit &amp; complain over lattes about all the stupid voters &amp; politicians that screwed up your great plans.
Why would someone ever give that up?  It&#039;s one of the reasons public schools are so popular.  When you have to go to a heated public meeting because the school board decided to cut music funding, you and your neighbors leave with a renewed sense of community concern &amp; togetherness.  You never get that from a charter school that just educates your kid in such a way that you want to keep attending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin Drum will probably be relatively pleased with the outcome, because it&#8217;s not very satisfying to have millions of faceless, self-interested actors solve your problems for you.  But it is satisfying to go vote or protest with some self-righteous idea.  You know you did your part, and you fought for what&#8217;s right with like minded people.  And, for all eternity, you can sit &amp; complain over lattes about all the stupid voters &amp; politicians that screwed up your great plans.<br />
Why would someone ever give that up?  It&#8217;s one of the reasons public schools are so popular.  When you have to go to a heated public meeting because the school board decided to cut music funding, you and your neighbors leave with a renewed sense of community concern &amp; togetherness.  You never get that from a charter school that just educates your kid in such a way that you want to keep attending.</p>
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		<title>By: Les</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/05/how-does-he-do-this-with-a-straight-face.html/comment-page-1#comment-19138</link>
		<dc:creator>Les</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 10:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7919#comment-19138</guid>
		<description>The desire for top-down hierarchy is natural, it&#039;s imbedded in our psyche from the first day we figured out as a species just how mind-boggling usefull opposable thumbs were.

The problem is, we&#039;re also wired to love our friends and family and immediate acquaintances like we would ourselves, and to hell iwth everyone else.  Dunbar&#039;s number in action, and it plays merry hell with any attempt at specifically guide a large nation-state in any but the most vague and general ways.  Yet, people still insist on trying to implement a top-down government strategy like their caveman hind-brains tell them they should despite all the evidence that it just doesn&#039;t scale-up that well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The desire for top-down hierarchy is natural, it&#8217;s imbedded in our psyche from the first day we figured out as a species just how mind-boggling usefull opposable thumbs were.</p>
<p>The problem is, we&#8217;re also wired to love our friends and family and immediate acquaintances like we would ourselves, and to hell iwth everyone else.  Dunbar&#8217;s number in action, and it plays merry hell with any attempt at specifically guide a large nation-state in any but the most vague and general ways.  Yet, people still insist on trying to implement a top-down government strategy like their caveman hind-brains tell them they should despite all the evidence that it just doesn&#8217;t scale-up that well.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Bowman</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/05/how-does-he-do-this-with-a-straight-face.html/comment-page-1#comment-19115</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Bowman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 14:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7919#comment-19115</guid>
		<description>The frightening reality is that the folks in charge now (the Dems) have always believed that the USSR was a really great experiment that somehow the folks in charge didn&#039;t get quite right. Top-down planning is the way to go in the minds of these folks. This time, they believe, &lt;b&gt;we&#039;ll get it right.&lt;/b&gt;

Seriously, that is &lt;i&gt;exactly what these people believe.&lt;/i&gt; Truly, we have lunatics running the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The frightening reality is that the folks in charge now (the Dems) have always believed that the USSR was a really great experiment that somehow the folks in charge didn&#8217;t get quite right. Top-down planning is the way to go in the minds of these folks. This time, they believe, <b>we&#8217;ll get it right.</b></p>
<p>Seriously, that is <i>exactly what these people believe.</i> Truly, we have lunatics running the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Les</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/05/how-does-he-do-this-with-a-straight-face.html/comment-page-1#comment-19105</link>
		<dc:creator>Les</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 09:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7919#comment-19105</guid>
		<description>A fitting analogy I think to the top-down leadership style&#039;s failure and the failure of those who endorse it to recognize said failure would be...

...imagine someone wanted to build a dirigible and fly around the world, then they reason, &quot;Hmmm.. Hydrogen is lighter than air, water is two parts hydrogen to one part oxygen, water is much cheeper than Helium, therefor I should be able to fill my dirigible with water and fly around the world!&quot;

And then the thing just sits there like a beached whale on the tarmac, so this someone blames the ground-crews.  &quot;It&#039;s all their fault, we just need some fresh blood in the ground-crew sector then we&#039;ll really see some results.&quot;  When what he should have done was go to the manufacturer and say, &quot;I want a dirigible that can fly around the world, I&#039;ll leave you to muddle-out the details.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A fitting analogy I think to the top-down leadership style&#8217;s failure and the failure of those who endorse it to recognize said failure would be&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;imagine someone wanted to build a dirigible and fly around the world, then they reason, &#8220;Hmmm.. Hydrogen is lighter than air, water is two parts hydrogen to one part oxygen, water is much cheeper than Helium, therefor I should be able to fill my dirigible with water and fly around the world!&#8221;</p>
<p>And then the thing just sits there like a beached whale on the tarmac, so this someone blames the ground-crews.  &#8220;It&#8217;s all their fault, we just need some fresh blood in the ground-crew sector then we&#8217;ll really see some results.&#8221;  When what he should have done was go to the manufacturer and say, &#8220;I want a dirigible that can fly around the world, I&#8217;ll leave you to muddle-out the details.&#8221;</p>
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