Comments on: The Problem With Wind http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html Dispatches from a Small Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:04:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: raj http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18938 raj Sat, 02 May 2009 09:52:27 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18938 Actually, there is a perfectly good technology that complements wind energy and balances out the infirm nature of wind. Large, medium-speed reciprocating engines that run on gas, come in unit sizes upto 16 MW. 10 of them make up a 160 MW plant. These recips start/stop instantaneously one at a time or together, have efficiencies > 45%, do not need water (closed circuit radiators) can chase wind energy very well in the grid.They mix flexibility with efficiency, unlike simple cycle gas turbines or combined cycle ones which can claim to have only either of the two. Such plants have been installed in Denver, Florida and California. Actually, there is a perfectly good technology that complements wind energy and balances out the infirm nature of wind. Large, medium-speed reciprocating engines that run on gas, come in unit sizes upto 16 MW. 10 of them make up a 160 MW plant. These recips start/stop instantaneously one at a time or together, have efficiencies > 45%, do not need water (closed circuit radiators) can chase wind energy very well in the grid.They mix flexibility with efficiency, unlike simple cycle gas turbines or combined cycle ones which can claim to have only either of the two. Such plants have been installed in Denver, Florida and California.

]]> By: MRP http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18500 MRP Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:41:43 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18500 There is huge opposition to a wind farm which is proposed for Palmerston North's water catchment, last bush remnant and in fact right in a residential area. This has had no national media coverage but all the info you might need about this Turitea disaster can be found at http://www.palmerston-north.info There is huge opposition to a wind farm which is proposed for Palmerston North’s water catchment, last bush remnant and in fact right in a residential area. This has had no national media coverage but all the info you might need about this Turitea disaster can be found at
http://www.palmerston-north.info

]]> By: george http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18492 george Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:44:13 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18492 It's still gotta be solar, It’s still gotta be solar,

]]> By: Brad http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18474 Brad Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:39:21 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18474 I am more curious than confident in the statistic that a coal power plant producing roughly 500MW takes 100 sq. acres and a wind farm producing the same power takes 100 sq. miles. Whatever the exact measurements are there seems to be an inevitable clash at some point with available land. I don't particularly care for the miles and miles of horizon covered with windmills in Southwestern Wyoming right now. I am more curious than confident in the statistic that a coal power plant producing roughly 500MW takes 100 sq. acres and a wind farm producing the same power takes 100 sq. miles. Whatever the exact measurements are there seems to be an inevitable clash at some point with available land. I don’t particularly care for the miles and miles of horizon covered with windmills in Southwestern Wyoming right now.

]]> By: tomw http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18459 tomw Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:37:24 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18459 Quote; "You can put up all the windmills you want just do not ask me to subsidize it through to coersive power of government." "If you put the government in charge of the desert, you'd soon have a shortage of sand" M. Friedman, to paraphrase. We need these "smart" guys that "know" what is best for us deciding energy policy. Ummm Huh. Just like we need another hole in our head. Remember Jimma Cartuh's Synfuels -- gonna make Oil obsolete!! Energy Independence Now!! How many $Billions later, and where are we? Same place, but poorer. I could go on about HRH's disdain for the small business, "if they can't afford health care for their employees, then let them go out of business", but it is a waste of time and energy. Oy. tom Quote; “You can put up all the windmills you want just do not ask me to subsidize it through to coersive power of government.”

“If you put the government in charge of the desert, you’d soon have a shortage of sand” M. Friedman, to paraphrase.

We need these “smart” guys that “know” what is best for us deciding energy policy. Ummm Huh. Just like we need another hole in our head. Remember Jimma Cartuh’s Synfuels — gonna make Oil obsolete!! Energy Independence Now!! How many $Billions later, and where are we? Same place, but poorer. I could go on about HRH’s disdain for the small business, “if they can’t afford health care for their employees, then let them go out of business”, but it is a waste of time and energy.
Oy.
tom

]]> By: seotagon49 http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18453 seotagon49 Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:31:37 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18453 Xmas, All natural resources are free. The ground does not charge you for the oil. It is the effort put into the process of converting the natural resource into something useful that imposes costs. You can put up all the windmills you want just do not ask me to subsidize it through to coersive power of government. Xmas,

All natural resources are free. The ground does not charge you for the oil. It is the effort put into the process of converting the natural resource into something useful that imposes costs. You can put up all the windmills you want just do not ask me to subsidize it through to coersive power of government.

]]> By: rxc http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18443 rxc Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:19:49 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18443 No one has mentioned the problem with large power swings that occur around the grid, and the effect they have on grid stability. I think this is the biggest impediment to wind, other than the fact that the only place that seems to be acceptable to locate the windmills is in the mid-west farm country, while the loads are a LONG way away. Obama talks about building a new renewable grid, but it cannot be disconnected from the existing grid structure, and it has to maintain frequency, or else it all falls apart. Utilities do major stability studies before they decide to add capacity, and they size new units to ensure that a trip does not "ring" the system and overload it. This is not a simple matter of adding more wires - they have to be added in the right places, which are, unfortunately, quite picturesque. I know of one utility that would like to add new nuclear capability at one site that was originally sited for two plants, but they now don't have the transmission capacity out of the site. And then they talk about limiting access to this new "renewable grid" to only windmills - where is the power going to come from and how is it going to get to the customers? All-in-all, I find all this talk about a new smart grid to be just that - talk. The people at the top have no idea what is involved to technically upgrade the grid to include the substantial amounts of renewables they want to build. It is just smoke and mirrors. No one has mentioned the problem with large power swings that occur around the grid, and the effect they have on grid stability. I think this is the biggest impediment to wind, other than the fact that the only place that seems to be acceptable to locate the windmills is in the mid-west farm country, while the loads are a LONG way away. Obama talks about building a new renewable grid, but it cannot be disconnected from the existing grid structure, and it has to maintain frequency, or else it all falls apart. Utilities do major stability studies before they decide to add capacity, and they size new units to ensure that a trip does not “ring” the system and overload it.

This is not a simple matter of adding more wires – they have to be added in the right places, which are, unfortunately, quite picturesque. I know of one utility that would like to add new nuclear capability at one site that was originally sited for two plants, but they now don’t have the transmission capacity out of the site.

And then they talk about limiting access to this new “renewable grid” to only windmills – where is the power going to come from and how is it going to get to the customers?

All-in-all, I find all this talk about a new smart grid to be just that – talk. The people at the top have no idea what is involved to technically upgrade the grid to include the substantial amounts of renewables they want to build. It is just smoke and mirrors.

]]> By: Xmas http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18434 Xmas Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:07:50 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18434 Septagon, Wind is free and windmills are relatively low-cost and low-maintenance. But even with all that, gas-turbines and coal-fired boilers are still cheaper. At least for now. The hardest part about putting up windmills is the NIMBY factor. I was happy that my hometown let one be put up to power a local school. http://www.holyname.net/storythree.html Septagon,

Wind is free and windmills are relatively low-cost and low-maintenance. But even with all that, gas-turbines and coal-fired boilers are still cheaper. At least for now.

The hardest part about putting up windmills is the NIMBY factor. I was happy that my hometown let one be put up to power a local school.

http://www.holyname.net/storythree.html

]]> By: Mesa Econoguy http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18424 Mesa Econoguy Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:50:04 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18424 Since no one said it, well… The real problem with wind is it blows. (Also, there’s a little problem called the <a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betz%27_law”" rel="nofollow">Betz limit</a>….And there are major siting problems…..and it generally sucks- er, blows) Since no one said it, well…

The real problem with wind is it blows.

(Also, there’s a little problem called the Betz limit….And there are major siting problems…..and it generally sucks- er, blows)

]]> By: Fred Z http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2009/04/the-problem-with-wind.html/comment-page-1#comment-18421 Fred Z Fri, 17 Apr 2009 03:41:46 +0000 http://www.coyoteblog.com/?p=7709#comment-18421 Blah, blah, blah. Lots of personal opinions, all worthless. We already have a perfect measure of environmental efficiency, with 100s of millions of people carefully watching it. It's called money. The market, you ignoramuses. Blah, blah, blah. Lots of personal opinions, all worthless.

We already have a perfect measure of environmental efficiency, with 100s of millions of people carefully watching it.

It’s called money.

The market, you ignoramuses.

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