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	<title>Comments on: Yet More Economic Ignorance</title>
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	<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html</link>
	<description>Dispatches from a Small Business</description>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14663</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14663</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This post is very interesting and the comments have provided more than enough facts for anyone to realize that this bailout is not a good idea.  The part that really hits hard for me is that the UAW has not come out and said that they need to change.  They have only said that they will make changes once the plan is passed.  This is completely illogical and totally shows that the union is only interested in paying their employees.  I was reading a report, I believe on www.emptypig.com that the average hourly wage at GM is 55/hour and if you include the legacy payments, 75/hour.  That is incredible.  Concessions need to come from all sides.  Regardless, I still don&#039;t favor a bailout.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is very interesting and the comments have provided more than enough facts for anyone to realize that this bailout is not a good idea.  The part that really hits hard for me is that the UAW has not come out and said that they need to change.  They have only said that they will make changes once the plan is passed.  This is completely illogical and totally shows that the union is only interested in paying their employees.  I was reading a report, I believe on <a href="http://www.emptypig.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.emptypig.com</a> that the average hourly wage at GM is 55/hour and if you include the legacy payments, 75/hour.  That is incredible.  Concessions need to come from all sides.  Regardless, I still don&#8217;t favor a bailout.</p>
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		<title>By: Corky Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14662</link>
		<dc:creator>Corky Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14662</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Granted there are major problems caused by the legacy of UAW domination of the domestic auto industry, but there are many many others.  Here is what should be addressed by Congress before spending 25 or 50 billion in loans.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Taxation&lt;br /&gt;
Both European and Japanese have tax systems that favor exports and hinder imports.  Europe has a Value Added Tax of 16 to 19%.  Japan has a similar one.  In both areas, products that are exported have the VAT forgiven.  An American will pay far less than his European counterpart for a Mercedes or a BMW.  Ditto for the Japanese.  On the other hand, exports from the USA are charged the VAT on top of all US tax content.  In essence it is a tariff in our exports and a subsidy on their exports that doesn&#039;t violate GATT. It is one of the main reasons we are non-competitive in the world markets.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In addition, foreign cars come to the US through their US arms.  Costs of autos and parts for their US assembly plants are structured to minimize US profits/corporate profit taxes.  Most assembly plants have received property tax mitigation as they played states against each other.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Medical Costs&lt;br /&gt;
Most non-US countries have socialized medicine which is paid for with broad based taxes, VAT in Europe, GST in Canada etc.  US manufacturers pay the medical insurance for existing and retired employees which must be added the cost of the cars.  15 years ago there was $1,800 of medical cost content per vehicle at GM.  Probably it is higher now.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If the US is to be competitive in the international manufacturing market, we must address these issues.  It involves far more than autos.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Granted there are major problems caused by the legacy of UAW domination of the domestic auto industry, but there are many many others.  Here is what should be addressed by Congress before spending 25 or 50 billion in loans.</p>
<p>Taxation<br />
Both European and Japanese have tax systems that favor exports and hinder imports.  Europe has a Value Added Tax of 16 to 19%.  Japan has a similar one.  In both areas, products that are exported have the VAT forgiven.  An American will pay far less than his European counterpart for a Mercedes or a BMW.  Ditto for the Japanese.  On the other hand, exports from the USA are charged the VAT on top of all US tax content.  In essence it is a tariff in our exports and a subsidy on their exports that doesn&#8217;t violate GATT. It is one of the main reasons we are non-competitive in the world markets.</p>
<p>In addition, foreign cars come to the US through their US arms.  Costs of autos and parts for their US assembly plants are structured to minimize US profits/corporate profit taxes.  Most assembly plants have received property tax mitigation as they played states against each other.</p>
<p>Medical Costs<br />
Most non-US countries have socialized medicine which is paid for with broad based taxes, VAT in Europe, GST in Canada etc.  US manufacturers pay the medical insurance for existing and retired employees which must be added the cost of the cars.  15 years ago there was $1,800 of medical cost content per vehicle at GM.  Probably it is higher now.</p>
<p>If the US is to be competitive in the international manufacturing market, we must address these issues.  It involves far more than autos.</p>
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		<title>By: Corky Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14661</link>
		<dc:creator>Corky Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14661</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Having an auto czar dictating which cars GM will produce brings back memories of the California CARB fiasco madating 2% and then 10% of sales be zero emission vehicles.  GM spent a billion dollars developing the EV-1. GM was the only manufacturer to develop and produce a purpose built ZEV, all others adapted existing models.  All tooling was was designed for volume production.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Slightly over a thousand were built and leased.  The direct production costs were reputed to be over $100,000 per copy, but were leased for $400/month, more for a 220v external charger.  Each car produced carried a million dollars of development costs.  That&#039;s heavy change.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But here&#039;s the problem.  While government can mandate production levels, they can&#039;t mandate sales.  There is no way 10% of the California public would buy a vehicle that had a 100 mile range (50 mile radius) and would require a tow if you ran out of fuel.  And would take 8 hours to fill up the tank.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And anyway, GM couldn&#039;t sell the cars anyway.  Under Calfornia franchise laws (as in most other states as well), only authorized dealers can do that.  That mean&#039;t GM (or any other manufacturer) would require their dealers take 10% of their monthly planning as unsalable ZEVs.  It would be up to the dealers to get rid of them and take the loss.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now anyone familiar with the auto industry knows that dealers aren&#039;t shrinking violets.  It would have been hilarious to see how the dealers would have reacted.  Fortunately a federal court settled the issue in the auto companies&#039; favor.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But that&#039;s what will happen when if an auto Czar can mandate production of unsalable cars.    &lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having an auto czar dictating which cars GM will produce brings back memories of the California CARB fiasco madating 2% and then 10% of sales be zero emission vehicles.  GM spent a billion dollars developing the EV-1. GM was the only manufacturer to develop and produce a purpose built ZEV, all others adapted existing models.  All tooling was was designed for volume production.</p>
<p>Slightly over a thousand were built and leased.  The direct production costs were reputed to be over $100,000 per copy, but were leased for $400/month, more for a 220v external charger.  Each car produced carried a million dollars of development costs.  That&#8217;s heavy change.</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s the problem.  While government can mandate production levels, they can&#8217;t mandate sales.  There is no way 10% of the California public would buy a vehicle that had a 100 mile range (50 mile radius) and would require a tow if you ran out of fuel.  And would take 8 hours to fill up the tank.  </p>
<p>And anyway, GM couldn&#8217;t sell the cars anyway.  Under Calfornia franchise laws (as in most other states as well), only authorized dealers can do that.  That mean&#8217;t GM (or any other manufacturer) would require their dealers take 10% of their monthly planning as unsalable ZEVs.  It would be up to the dealers to get rid of them and take the loss.</p>
<p>Now anyone familiar with the auto industry knows that dealers aren&#8217;t shrinking violets.  It would have been hilarious to see how the dealers would have reacted.  Fortunately a federal court settled the issue in the auto companies&#8217; favor.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s what will happen when if an auto Czar can mandate production of unsalable cars.    </p>
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		<title>By: geez</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14660</link>
		<dc:creator>geez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14660</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you really look at the facts and not just superficial stupidity, you see that GM makes autos people want.  what has choked them is unions.  without their benefits, and unions, gm would make money.  unions are the reason why automakers are failing.  unions are also the reason why airlines have been bankrupt.  get you facts straight and think.  its not that hard&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you really look at the facts and not just superficial stupidity, you see that GM makes autos people want.  what has choked them is unions.  without their benefits, and unions, gm would make money.  unions are the reason why automakers are failing.  unions are also the reason why airlines have been bankrupt.  get you facts straight and think.  its not that hard</p>
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		<title>By: Cold Englishman</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14659</link>
		<dc:creator>Cold Englishman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14659</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We&#039;ve done it before - Take a look at UK motor manufacturing during the last 40 years, Morris Motors morphed into Austin/Morris morphed into BMC, morphed into British Leyland, went bust, morphed into bits sold to Ford, BMW etc etc etc a disaster because they made awful vehicles at an awful price which nobody wanted. The most recent sale was to China (MG Rover) and they are now under license to make a car already 10 years old that no one will buy (except in China of course). When the state and the unions carve up an industry you will all end up with a Trabant.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve done it before &#8211; Take a look at UK motor manufacturing during the last 40 years, Morris Motors morphed into Austin/Morris morphed into BMC, morphed into British Leyland, went bust, morphed into bits sold to Ford, BMW etc etc etc a disaster because they made awful vehicles at an awful price which nobody wanted. The most recent sale was to China (MG Rover) and they are now under license to make a car already 10 years old that no one will buy (except in China of course). When the state and the unions carve up an industry you will all end up with a Trabant.</p>
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		<title>By: seanooski</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14658</link>
		<dc:creator>seanooski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14658</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m amazed that anyone could suggest with a straight face that assembly line workers should earn $76.00/hour. As a professional, skilled tradesman of almost twenty years I command a decent salary, but nothing even close to the salary of UAW members. I thought you had to go into business for yourself to get that kind of jack.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m amazed that anyone could suggest with a straight face that assembly line workers should earn $76.00/hour. As a professional, skilled tradesman of almost twenty years I command a decent salary, but nothing even close to the salary of UAW members. I thought you had to go into business for yourself to get that kind of jack.</p>
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		<title>By: charles waugh</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14657</link>
		<dc:creator>charles waugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14657</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You quoted Boudreaux quoting someone else,,, he appears against the bailout.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You quoted Boudreaux quoting someone else,,, he appears against the bailout.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14656</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14656</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh. By &quot;shares&quot; you meant &quot;shares with us&quot;, not &quot;agrees with&quot;, didn&#039;t you? My bad.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In my defense, though, you might have chosen a different verb....&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh. By &#8220;shares&#8221; you meant &#8220;shares with us&#8221;, not &#8220;agrees with&#8221;, didn&#8217;t you? My bad.</p>
<p>In my defense, though, you might have chosen a different verb&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14655</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14655</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think you misread the Cafe Hayek entry. Don Boudreaux most emphatically does &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; agree with that leftish view espoused by Garofalo. Am I missing something? If not, you owe him an apology.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you misread the Cafe Hayek entry. Don Boudreaux most emphatically does <b><i>not</i></b> agree with that leftish view espoused by Garofalo. Am I missing something? If not, you owe him an apology.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html/comment-page-1#comment-14654</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.warrenmeyer.net/coyote_blog/2008/11/yet-more-economic-ignorance.html#comment-14654</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;34.5 days a year of paid leave&quot;: it&#039;s hard not to admire the &quot;.5&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;34.5 days a year of paid leave&#8221;: it&#8217;s hard not to admire the &#8220;.5&#8243;.</p>
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