Comments on: Great First Ammendment Ruling http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/11/great-first-amm.html Dispatches from a Small Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:39:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Andy http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/11/great-first-amm.html/comment-page-1#comment-8284 Andy Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:07:56 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/11/great-first-amm.html#comment-8284 <p>It wasn't me, but I concur with markm. That's also why the 08 election will be important for the 1 or 2 justices due to be replaced. I've had it up to here with post-modernist, multi-kulti PC silliness.</p> It wasn’t me, but I concur with markm. That’s also why the 08 election will be important for the 1 or 2 justices due to be replaced. I’ve had it up to here with post-modernist, multi-kulti PC silliness.

]]> By: Flash Gordon http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/11/great-first-amm.html/comment-page-1#comment-8283 Flash Gordon Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:53:05 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/11/great-first-amm.html#comment-8283 <p>Was it Andy or Raven who asked if the 1st Amendment applied to SFSU? Raven, I think. Anyway, markm is correct on both counts. SFSU, by virtue of being a state university is subject to the 1st Amd. since the 1st Amd. has long since been incorporated into the 14th Amd. so that it applies to the states. And the sheer fact that SFSU is an institution of "higher" learning means it gets some federal funding although that alone might not be enough to make what it does constitute "government action" so as to make it subject to the 1st Amd. The more usual reason the federal government gets to tell universities what to do, such as the Virginia Military Institute, is that the statute under which they get federal funds provides that funds can be cut off under certain circumstances.</p> <p>We can safely assume one or both of these things applies because this judge has shown by his opinion that he is a wise and learned man.</p> Was it Andy or Raven who asked if the 1st Amendment applied to SFSU? Raven, I think. Anyway, markm is correct on both counts. SFSU, by virtue of being a state university is subject to the 1st Amd. since the 1st Amd. has long since been incorporated into the 14th Amd. so that it applies to the states. And the sheer fact that SFSU is an institution of “higher” learning means it gets some federal funding although that alone might not be enough to make what it does constitute “government action” so as to make it subject to the 1st Amd. The more usual reason the federal government gets to tell universities what to do, such as the Virginia Military Institute, is that the statute under which they get federal funds provides that funds can be cut off under certain circumstances.

We can safely assume one or both of these things applies because this judge has shown by his opinion that he is a wise and learned man.

]]> By: markm http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/11/great-first-amm.html/comment-page-1#comment-8282 markm Fri, 23 Nov 2007 02:41:28 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/11/great-first-amm.html#comment-8282 <p>Andy, SFSU = San Francisco <i>State</i> University is not a private organization. States are also bound by the 1st Amendment - not that I know of any state college that isn't also getting federal funds.</p> <p>If you're asking about private colleges implementing a speech code similar to SFSU's, they might have to turn down various federal subsidies. There are several ways a private college can receive federal money - various direct subsidies, research grants for specific projects, and tuition payments from students receiving federal aid - and the rules can be different for each funding program. Government money going directly to the institution as a whole will definitely bring it under the Bill of Rights, but most federal money is earmarked for specific programs, and thus may affect only that project. Finally, IANAL, but I think that loans, grants, and vouchers given to students to be spent on the school of their choice do not count as government money going to the school. E.g., no government agency could fund a seminary but you can take your Pell grant and spend it on tuition for a seminary.</p> <p>Also remember that unwise and unconstitutional are not the same. A college's primary job is to teach students to think, and free debate is essential to that. Any school administration that will even <i>think</i> about an SFSU-style speech code has thereby proven they are utterly unfit to run a school of higher education. Until the whole administration is replaced, I wouldn't go to SFSU, I wouldn't let my kids go there, and if I was a Californian I'd be writing angry letters to my state representative about my tax dollars going to pay the salary of those malignant incompetents.</p> Andy, SFSU = San Francisco State University is not a private organization. States are also bound by the 1st Amendment – not that I know of any state college that isn’t also getting federal funds.

If you’re asking about private colleges implementing a speech code similar to SFSU’s, they might have to turn down various federal subsidies. There are several ways a private college can receive federal money – various direct subsidies, research grants for specific projects, and tuition payments from students receiving federal aid – and the rules can be different for each funding program. Government money going directly to the institution as a whole will definitely bring it under the Bill of Rights, but most federal money is earmarked for specific programs, and thus may affect only that project. Finally, IANAL, but I think that loans, grants, and vouchers given to students to be spent on the school of their choice do not count as government money going to the school. E.g., no government agency could fund a seminary but you can take your Pell grant and spend it on tuition for a seminary.

Also remember that unwise and unconstitutional are not the same. A college’s primary job is to teach students to think, and free debate is essential to that. Any school administration that will even think about an SFSU-style speech code has thereby proven they are utterly unfit to run a school of higher education. Until the whole administration is replaced, I wouldn’t go to SFSU, I wouldn’t let my kids go there, and if I was a Californian I’d be writing angry letters to my state representative about my tax dollars going to pay the salary of those malignant incompetents.

]]> By: Mark http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/11/great-first-amm.html/comment-page-1#comment-8281 Mark Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:50:07 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/11/great-first-amm.html#comment-8281 <p>I also do not have time to read the actual decision, but one thing that is clear about these types of "codes" is that they are not enforced evenly.</p> <p>THat is, a leftist can walk around campus with a negative message like "F*CK BUSH" and that is tolerated. But a social conservative cannot conduct any speech that supports their views on abortion or homosexuality, even if the language is positive.</p> <p>THe conduct of the left and the academic tolerance of it is perhaps one of the most disappointing things in my life.</p> I also do not have time to read the actual decision, but one thing that is clear about these types of “codes” is that they are not enforced evenly.

THat is, a leftist can walk around campus with a negative message like “F*CK BUSH” and that is tolerated. But a social conservative cannot conduct any speech that supports their views on abortion or homosexuality, even if the language is positive.

THe conduct of the left and the academic tolerance of it is perhaps one of the most disappointing things in my life.

]]> By: morganovich http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/11/great-first-amm.html/comment-page-1#comment-8280 morganovich Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:45:18 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/11/great-first-amm.html#comment-8280 <p>pray this doesn't get kicked up to the ninth circuit. </p> <p>this is just the sort of reasonable thinking they seem to love to overturn...</p> pray this doesn’t get kicked up to the ninth circuit.

this is just the sort of reasonable thinking they seem to love to overturn…

]]> By: Raven http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/11/great-first-amm.html/comment-page-1#comment-8279 Raven Wed, 21 Nov 2007 05:57:48 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/11/great-first-amm.html#comment-8279 <p>Too lazy to read the actual decision... does anyone know if this case was based on SFSU receiving Federal funding? In other words, is this judge claiming the 1st amendment applies to private organizations?</p> Too lazy to read the actual decision… does anyone know if this case was based on SFSU receiving Federal funding? In other words, is this judge claiming the 1st amendment applies to private organizations?

]]> By: Andy http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/11/great-first-amm.html/comment-page-1#comment-8278 Andy Wed, 21 Nov 2007 05:16:45 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/11/great-first-amm.html#comment-8278 <p>Most excellent!!</p> Most excellent!!

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