Comments on: More on Education and Expertise http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html Dispatches from a Small Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:39:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jim http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7450 Jim Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:22:18 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7450 <p>You are spot on re implementation of DI. We have been trying for 4 years to get it fully implemented here on Guam, with full funding by the Feds (the only reason the bureaucracy let it get started), and in spite of continual and increasing success, the school system is fighting it tooth and nail.l</p> <p>Nearly impossible to improve this intrenched system. I am truly thankful that my kids are out of the system, getting out just prior to the recent dramatic decline in the last few years in all schools here, other than those fully implementing DI.</p> <p>If you can get DI into your school system, you should. It really works...thus the resistance by the bureaucracy.<br /> Jim</p> You are spot on re implementation of DI. We have been trying for 4 years to get it fully implemented here on Guam, with full funding by the Feds (the only reason the bureaucracy let it get started), and in spite of continual and increasing success, the school system is fighting it tooth and nail.l

Nearly impossible to improve this intrenched system. I am truly thankful that my kids are out of the system, getting out just prior to the recent dramatic decline in the last few years in all schools here, other than those fully implementing DI.

If you can get DI into your school system, you should. It really works…thus the resistance by the bureaucracy.
Jim

]]> By: Charles D. Quarles http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7449 Charles D. Quarles Mon, 01 Oct 2007 03:21:39 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7449 <p>Direct Instruction is another name for apprenticeship. It works quite well. In fact, the US Medical Education system uses it at both the undergraduate (medical school, dental school, optometry school, and nursing school) level and the post-graduate (medical residency) level. I have often wondered why apprenticeship based trade secondary schools died in this country. I know why now and it is the same reason why phonics was displaced by whole language and old style math basics were replaced by New Math (TM). It empowered the Socialists in and out of government at the expense of students and free peoples.</p> Direct Instruction is another name for apprenticeship. It works quite well. In fact, the US Medical Education system uses it at both the undergraduate (medical school, dental school, optometry school, and nursing school) level and the post-graduate (medical residency) level. I have often wondered why apprenticeship based trade secondary schools died in this country. I know why now and it is the same reason why phonics was displaced by whole language and old style math basics were replaced by New Math (TM). It empowered the Socialists in and out of government at the expense of students and free peoples.

]]> By: John http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7448 John Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:32:30 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7448 <p>DI is the method that the Navy has been using for upwards of 40 years to teach the Nuclear Power School. Officer walks in with a binder full of notes, whites section of notes on board, students copy section of notes, officer reads what is written on board, asks for questions, resolves all understanding issues of students, erases board, and continues. Tests occur at least weekly.</p> DI is the method that the Navy has been using for upwards of 40 years to teach the Nuclear Power School. Officer walks in with a binder full of notes, whites section of notes on board, students copy section of notes, officer reads what is written on board, asks for questions, resolves all understanding issues of students, erases board, and continues. Tests occur at least weekly.

]]> By: JoshK http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7447 JoshK Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:02:37 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7447 <p>It just seems that when we have these conversations about "fixing education" that we've already gone and drank the socialized-school / public-teachers' union cool-aid. We don't sit around talking about fixing Fedex or Walmart or Albertsons. Any private sector company is just expected to work - and if not, it will fail and be replaced. If we ever re-privatize education we'll stop talking about it...</p> It just seems that when we have these conversations about “fixing education” that we’ve already gone and drank the socialized-school / public-teachers’ union cool-aid. We don’t sit around talking about fixing Fedex or Walmart or Albertsons. Any private sector company is just expected to work – and if not, it will fail and be replaced. If we ever re-privatize education we’ll stop talking about it…

]]> By: Greg http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7446 Greg Sat, 29 Sep 2007 00:03:34 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7446 <p>Sounds like another reason to homeschool. "Super Crunchers" sounds interesting, thanks for the note. </p> Sounds like another reason to homeschool. “Super Crunchers” sounds interesting, thanks for the note.

]]> By: Ari http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7445 Ari Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:09:41 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7445 <p>DI sounds like, well, education. As a current high school student in a liberal state, I can personally attest to the degree teachers will go to find "alternative" teaching methods, all of which are of course complete bullshit. These include rearranging desks to make the "learning environment" more "welcoming," forcing students to do silly art projects with no educational value, abandoning actual work and note-taking in favor of random discussion, e.t.c. Keep in mind that I'm a senior in straight Advanced Placement courses. I can only imagine what goes on the in the average freshman class.</p> <p>Quote from one of the linked articles:</p> <p>"Ironically, those methods aim specifically at improving cognition or boosting self-esteem showed either negative average effects or no average effect on all three types of measure. This result anticipates later studies that have shown "the dark side" of efforts to found education upon self-esteem rather than viewing self-esteem as an outgrowth of acquiring proficiency at skills.</p> <p>Direct Instruction (DI), devised by Siegfried Engelmann in the early 1960's as he taught his own children, is defined by the researcher James Baumann: "The teacher, in a face to face, reasonably formal manner, tells, shows, models, demonstrates and teaches the skill to be learned. The key word is teacher, for it is the teacher who is in command."</p> DI sounds like, well, education. As a current high school student in a liberal state, I can personally attest to the degree teachers will go to find “alternative” teaching methods, all of which are of course complete bullshit. These include rearranging desks to make the “learning environment” more “welcoming,” forcing students to do silly art projects with no educational value, abandoning actual work and note-taking in favor of random discussion, e.t.c. Keep in mind that I’m a senior in straight Advanced Placement courses. I can only imagine what goes on the in the average freshman class.

Quote from one of the linked articles:

“Ironically, those methods aim specifically at improving cognition or boosting self-esteem showed either negative average effects or no average effect on all three types of measure. This result anticipates later studies that have shown “the dark side” of efforts to found education upon self-esteem rather than viewing self-esteem as an outgrowth of acquiring proficiency at skills.

Direct Instruction (DI), devised by Siegfried Engelmann in the early 1960′s as he taught his own children, is defined by the researcher James Baumann: “The teacher, in a face to face, reasonably formal manner, tells, shows, models, demonstrates and teaches the skill to be learned. The key word is teacher, for it is the teacher who is in command.”

]]> By: Mike http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7444 Mike Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:29:51 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7444 <p>DI sounds alot like the method the nuns used on us in grade school in the 60's...it was effective (along with corporal punishment, of course).</p> DI sounds alot like the method the nuns used on us in grade school in the 60′s…it was effective (along with corporal punishment, of course).

]]> By: Jeff http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7443 Jeff Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:25:47 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7443 <p>You forgot football. In Texas, it's:</p> <p>1. Administrators<br /> 2. Teachers<br /> 3. Football program<br /> 4. Students</p> You forgot football. In Texas, it’s:

1. Administrators
2. Teachers
3. Football program
4. Students

]]> By: dearieme http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/09/more-on-educati.html/comment-page-1#comment-7442 dearieme Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:56:11 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/09/more-on-educati.html#comment-7442 <p>Little harm in proletarianising the teachers if they have already largely destroyed any notion that they are a profession.</p> Little harm in proletarianising the teachers if they have already largely destroyed any notion that they are a profession.

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