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	<title>Comments on: Anti-Universal Coverage</title>
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	<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/06/anti-universal.html</link>
	<description>Dispatches from a Small Business</description>
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		<title>By: Methinks</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/06/anti-universal.html/comment-page-1#comment-5941</link>
		<dc:creator>Methinks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/06/anti-universal.html #comment-5941</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, the many many people you refer to are then overcome by the many many many more that tell exactly the opposite story.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Perhaps we can talk in real statistics.  Maybe you have a good explanation for why five year survival rate for breast cancer caught early in the US stands at 98% while it&#039;s only 78% in The UK??? Why do 45% of dialysis centers deny dialysis to people aged 65 and older.  Dialysis is rationed in Britain and somebody has to make who live or dies.  Perhaps you can also explain why drugs available in America are banned in parts of Europe because the socialist body responsible for negotiating a price cap couldn&#039;t come to an agreement.  LONG lists are well documented by the very healthcare systems that I criticize.  Just take a look at their own websites.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you want to use anecdotes, I can give you an exhaustive list.  One guy&#039;s anecdote is hardly a reason to think that things are a-okay.  Many people&#039;s experience suggests a trend beyond anecdotal.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the many many people you refer to are then overcome by the many many many more that tell exactly the opposite story.</p>
<p>Perhaps we can talk in real statistics.  Maybe you have a good explanation for why five year survival rate for breast cancer caught early in the US stands at 98% while it&#8217;s only 78% in The UK??? Why do 45% of dialysis centers deny dialysis to people aged 65 and older.  Dialysis is rationed in Britain and somebody has to make who live or dies.  Perhaps you can also explain why drugs available in America are banned in parts of Europe because the socialist body responsible for negotiating a price cap couldn&#8217;t come to an agreement.  LONG lists are well documented by the very healthcare systems that I criticize.  Just take a look at their own websites.</p>
<p>If you want to use anecdotes, I can give you an exhaustive list.  One guy&#8217;s anecdote is hardly a reason to think that things are a-okay.  Many people&#8217;s experience suggests a trend beyond anecdotal.</p>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/06/anti-universal.html/comment-page-1#comment-5940</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/06/anti-universal.html #comment-5940</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;The poor and middle class die on years long waiting lists in these highly egalitarian industrialized countries with socialized care.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When you throw out obvious falsehoods like these, you lose any pretense to the high ground whatsoever. Consider that many many many people who have had experience with other countries&#039; health care systems have come back and in fact said that, yes, they ARE doing it better (ref: Matt Welch, a writer with sufficient libertarian bona fides, I would hope).&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The poor and middle class die on years long waiting lists in these highly egalitarian industrialized countries with socialized care.&#8221;</p>
<p>When you throw out obvious falsehoods like these, you lose any pretense to the high ground whatsoever. Consider that many many many people who have had experience with other countries&#8217; health care systems have come back and in fact said that, yes, they ARE doing it better (ref: Matt Welch, a writer with sufficient libertarian bona fides, I would hope).</p>
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		<title>By: Methinks</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/06/anti-universal.html/comment-page-1#comment-5939</link>
		<dc:creator>Methinks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2007/06/anti-universal.html #comment-5939</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Of course there are tons of free market alternatives.  They know that.  Treating the poor and downtrodden is not the point of socialized medicine.  The poor and middle class die on years long waiting lists in these highly egalitarian industrialized countries with socialized care.  The politicians and the rich don&#039;t wait on long waiting lists because they pay out of pocket.  Nothing really changes for them.  The world is awash in data to support this.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The real reason for socialized medicine is to strengthen and consolidate government power and to impose price controls.  Leftists LOVE price controls, ANY price controls.  Politicians can harness rent seekers to gain access to anything they want and the rich can just pay for it.  It&#039;s the not so rich and the poor who will bear the cost of politicians sacrificing individuals&#039; life and health (to say nothing of liberty) on the alter of their own power to central plan &quot;on behalf&quot; of the rest of us. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course, the not so rich and the poor are the ones who are screeching for socialized medicine the loudest.  The unfortunate thing is that they will give the pols the power to inflict it on the ones who don&#039;t want it and can&#039;t buy their way out of it. As usual, our job then becomes to educate the semi-literate morons demanding to be thrown of this particular cliff in time to stop the pols.  Unfortunately, besides Hillary, Obama and Bill Gates, we&#039;re fighting for attention against famous Hollywood half-wits who are fawning over Michael Moore&#039;s latest propoganda ditty.  For a moment, I thought &quot;Sicko&quot; was a film made ABOUT Michael Moore, not by him.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course there are tons of free market alternatives.  They know that.  Treating the poor and downtrodden is not the point of socialized medicine.  The poor and middle class die on years long waiting lists in these highly egalitarian industrialized countries with socialized care.  The politicians and the rich don&#8217;t wait on long waiting lists because they pay out of pocket.  Nothing really changes for them.  The world is awash in data to support this.</p>
<p>The real reason for socialized medicine is to strengthen and consolidate government power and to impose price controls.  Leftists LOVE price controls, ANY price controls.  Politicians can harness rent seekers to gain access to anything they want and the rich can just pay for it.  It&#8217;s the not so rich and the poor who will bear the cost of politicians sacrificing individuals&#8217; life and health (to say nothing of liberty) on the alter of their own power to central plan &#8220;on behalf&#8221; of the rest of us. </p>
<p>Of course, the not so rich and the poor are the ones who are screeching for socialized medicine the loudest.  The unfortunate thing is that they will give the pols the power to inflict it on the ones who don&#8217;t want it and can&#8217;t buy their way out of it. As usual, our job then becomes to educate the semi-literate morons demanding to be thrown of this particular cliff in time to stop the pols.  Unfortunately, besides Hillary, Obama and Bill Gates, we&#8217;re fighting for attention against famous Hollywood half-wits who are fawning over Michael Moore&#8217;s latest propoganda ditty.  For a moment, I thought &#8220;Sicko&#8221; was a film made ABOUT Michael Moore, not by him.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon N.</title>
		<link>http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2007/06/anti-universal.html/comment-page-1#comment-5938</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;The only issue I have with the universality part of this statement is that inevitably, we _will_ treat uninsured patients. There&#039;s just no scenario where this wouldn&#039;t be the case. So, if we don&#039;t require people who can afford it to buy insurance, the government will end up paying for the coverage that they do get.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So how do we deal with this? Obviously, the one solution is to require people to buy insurance. But, as you said, that sounds a lot like coercion. An alternative is to charge people after the fact... if you don&#039;t get insurance, yes, we won&#039;t turn you away, but the hospital has the ability to collect from you. Unfortunately, I suspect that would lead to all kinds of SICKO-like documentaries about all the people burdened with debt.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only issue I have with the universality part of this statement is that inevitably, we _will_ treat uninsured patients. There&#8217;s just no scenario where this wouldn&#8217;t be the case. So, if we don&#8217;t require people who can afford it to buy insurance, the government will end up paying for the coverage that they do get.</p>
<p>So how do we deal with this? Obviously, the one solution is to require people to buy insurance. But, as you said, that sounds a lot like coercion. An alternative is to charge people after the fact&#8230; if you don&#8217;t get insurance, yes, we won&#8217;t turn you away, but the hospital has the ability to collect from you. Unfortunately, I suspect that would lead to all kinds of SICKO-like documentaries about all the people burdened with debt.</p>
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