One Last Immigration Post

I really wasn't going to post again on immigration - I've said what I have to say and I want to move on before I get too tedious on the subject.  However, I was reading several conservative blogs over the last several days that had a lot of fun pointing out odd signs and screwball supporters of immigration in the recent immigration marches, as a way to mock the those who support immigration (example here).

I agree that immigration supporters have adopted some fellow travellers that they would do better without, particularly the hard-core Marxist remnants who not accidently chose the traditional Marxist-Soviet May Day holiday for their march.

However, I guess two can play at this game.  I would like to walk through some of the key points from a recent emailer to this site.  Below I will address a few of the best passages, but I have included the email in its entirety in the extended post, per the email's instructions.  Really, I encourage you to read the whole thing.  Every paragraph is priceless.

Being born with our rights is fine, HOWEVER the right to live in a PARTICULAR country within a FORMED AND STRUCTURED society of laws that protects those rights IS STRICTLY for THE "CITIZENS" who built that society TO DECIDE who may join them.!

I will call this the nation-as-country-club theory of government.  Basically he is saying that the US is a big country club where most of us get our memberships by inheritance, and we all get to chose the few new members we take in each year.  Of all the theories of government, this is, um, cetainly one of them.  If anything, it reminds me a little of Heinlin in "Starship Troopers" with a society where only those who completed military service are full citizens. 

This is, however, not the theory of government that our country was built on.  In fact, we didn't have any real immigration restrictions in this country for over 100 years after the Contitution was passed.  This model actually has strongly socialist implications.   I will demonstrate that next...

      Liberal Democrats AND SO CALLED LIBERTARIANS (who are really
displaced commis)  will come to be known as the morons who killed the
goose trying to get the gold faster!!!!

Wow!  All along I thought I was a libertarian anarco-capitalist and come to find out I am a displaced commie!  Who knew? 

Let's take an example.  Lets say a person from Mexico wants to rent my house and then go to work for me in my business here in Phoenix.  I believe that I should be able to rent my house to whomever I want and employ whomever I want without government interferance.  The emailer presumably believes that the government should be able to dictate who I can and can't rent my property to, and whom I can and can't employ in my business.  Who is the real socialist here?  I want to let people go wherever they want, and the emailer presumably wants checkpoints demanding to see your paperwork.  Which model looks more like Soviet Russia?

Recently the Arizona state goverment has discussed making it a crime of trespassing for a foreignor to be found anywhere in Arizona without the proper government paperwork.  This law would dictate that if I have a such a foreignor on my property, he is trespassing.  But he has my permission to be on my property, so how is he trespassing?  The only way he can be trespassing is if one assumes that the government, and not me, ultimately own my property.

Of course, half the emails I get still say "but they are illegal - they don't have rights."  OK, here is my counter-example.  Tomorrow, Congress passes a law that says "No one is allowed to criticize any sitting member of Congress for any reason."  What would you do?  I would run to my blog and immediately start posting "Trent Lott sucks;  John McCain sucks;  Hillary Clinton sucks" etc. etc.  Why -- because I still have the right to free speech, even if Congress makes it technically illegal.  Laws and acts of Congress don't change rights.  And if you believe that your rights do flow from Congress, then, well, we better all hold on because we are screwed.

America and the culture it has developed breeds predominantly decent people, these decent people have died to make America (and the world) a better place to live and little by little the world has learned from us and has begun to change for the better.
   Now very silly people act like all the filth sickeness and desease of the world should be welcomed into america?    No No No!!!!

    American society and its culture of law abiding decency must not be overcome by the selfish unwashed unlawful hordes who would come here and destroy what has taken so long for so many to build!!!

This whole cultural assimilation thing always rings hollow for me.  The very timeframe that folks like this get misty-eyed about when this country was built was a time of massive and nearly unfettered immigration.  If you really are concerned about preserving America's traditions and culture (assuming "culture" isn't being used just as a code word to keep non-WASPs out) then I would think you would be strongly pro-immigration.  Immigration is the norm in this country's history, and the current policies are the aberation.  If you really want to live in a country where the government actively defines its role as maintaining the country's culture intact, then you should go to France.

My family, which came over early in this century, was poor, unskilled, and German.  What could be worse from a "cultural" standpoint?  Surely few could argue that for the period from 1875 to 1945 the Germans had one of the top 3 most destructive cultures in the world.  Why would we ever want poor unskilled workers from a militaristic totalitarian culture?  But my family was accepted none-the-less.

By the way, the corruption of our rights and freedoms and government is not coming from the outside - because we already did it to ourselves.  In our original Constitutional framework, government was extremely limited and there was little it could do to influence lives.  In the last 70 years, we have corrupted this framework, trashing Constitutional protections and limitations on government and replacing them with a tyranny of the majority, where 51% can do unto the other 49% in any way they please.  We shot ourselves in the foot before most any current illegal immigrant was even born.

Latinos must be stupid since they dont even have the sense to adopt america!!  Illegals still want to be known as mexicans!!! You know those silly stupid gutless mexicans who allow corruption and filth to be a way of life in mexico??

We fought and died to eliminate that in America but you want to let it back in here??

Wow, I am getting emails from people who have already died!  Anyway, have you ever been to Boston on St. Patricks Day?  The Irish still show a lot of pride in their mother country but they still also consider themselves Americans.  The Irish are a great example -- Easterners in the 19th century rioted in protest of unskilled Irish immigration, but today they are part of the backbone of that American culture you get so misty-eyed about. 

Mexican culture and traditions are one of the things that make Arizona great.  Cinco de Mayo, for example, is a lot more fun than many of our American holidays and many of us anglos have adopted it in the same way most non-Irish have adopted St. Patricks Day.   I am not particularly religeous, but for you conservatives out there I will offer that Mexicans are far more religious than your average American outside of the South.

Oh, and by the way, aren't these "stupid, gutless" Mexicans you don't like actually risking life and limb and arrest to escape the corruption of their home country?

I hope the first victim of a desease from aN ILLEGAL mexican who was never vaccinated is someone you CARE ABOUT!!! jerk!!!!!   

Whoa, you say.  This guy doesn't represent me!  Well, I'll tell you.  I have watched over the last several weeks as conservative blogs have spent a good amount of time picking out the most extreme and unbalanced immigration supporters and using them to mock the pro-immigration position as a whole.  Turn about is fair play.

Update:  I got a second email substantially similar to this one (but with slight variations) from a different email address today, so this is either copied from another source or part of some campaign.   It could even be a mis-direction campaign by immigration supporters, though I doubt it because it is so dead on the tone and content of many other emails and comments I get.

As requested in the email, here is the entire email so that you can make sure I have not taken anything out of context

Hey Coyote, you liberal in sheeps clothing!!!   

     Tell the people of Sudan you said to use the human rights they
were born with! According to you they have them right now, right???  oR
maybe THose living in north korea can suddenly decide to use the rights
you say they have? They can cherish those rights while relaxing in
their coffins?

    YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS MEAN NOTHING UNLESS YOU SET UP A SYSTEM TO
PROTECT AND DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS so you can live long enough to exercise
those rights !!!!   

    America was built as a sovereign nation of laws by its citizens!!!!
America and its laws will protect those who pledge alliegience to
America and for those who promise to protect and defend America as
those legal citizens who have before them have done!!!!

   IT IS UP TO THE CITIZENS of america TO DECIDE WHO WILL JOIN THEM in
this country.  It was the citizens who built america with our sweat and
lives. Big mouths like you have tried to destroy america from Day
one!!!!

   The forefathers were smart enough to make sure It is not up to
MORONS with wacko ideas of one world!!!
   Its very clear you do not value America as the only decent place to
live on earth or that we are a soveriegn nation ruled by it's free
citizens.

   Malcontents like you have been trying to DESTROY THAT WHICH GAVE YOU
THE FREEDOM TO SPOUT YOUR TRASH! We wonder why you dont go elsewhere to
say the things you do??

   Maybe you dont have the courage??

    Being born with our rights is fine, HOWEVER the right to live in a
PARTICULAR country within a FORMED AND STRUCTURED society of laws that
protects those rights IS STRICTLY for THE "CITIZENS" who built that
society TO DECIDE who may join them.!

     Open borders would totally destroy the  American culture and the
entire world would plunge back to deperate self interest with each and
every human cutting each others throat as they did before america came
on the world wide scene and taught the world about civil rights and
decent treatment of citizens. 

     Like al things that work it came slow but deliberate and it is the
best system so far!!!

   What is "american culture" you ask???. American culture is the
combination of learned decency and caring for your fellow man along
with sympathy and self help programs for the needy.   The American way
of life has civilised Americans beyond that of any other society ever
known to man (to this date).
    America led the way throughtout the world removing despots and evil
men like hitler or the murdering islmic fanatics of turkey that killed
every christian Man woman and child who would not convert to Islam in
the 1915 islamic murder spree.

   

    America and the culture it has developed breeds predominantly
decent people, these decent people have died to make America (and the
world) a better place to live and little by little the world has
learned from us and has begun to change for the better.
   Now very silly people act like all the filth sickeness and desease
of the world should be welcomed into america?    No No No!!!!

    American society and its culture of law abiding decency must not be
overcome by the selfish unwashed unlawful hordes who would come here
and destroy what has taken so long for so many to build!!!

   We can only Assimilate the worlds needy immgrants slowly and build
America sensibly until the Entire world emulates our successful formula
of caring and decency. We would never be here unless our forefathers
had created a goverment of the people by the people so your slaps at
our govt is a slap to our forefathers and in reality a slap in your own
face unless you dont vote!!!

    Those who advocate open borders will kill america and the paradise
the world knows as America!!!!   

      Liberal Democrats AND SO CALLED LIBERTARIANS (who are really
displaced commis)  will come to be known as the morons who killed the
goose trying to get the gold faster!!!! (the goose I speak of is
America and is like the one who use to lay a golden egg every day or in
this case allows a set number of immagrants in so they may be
assimilated into our american culture of decency...

         Latinos must be stupid since they dont even have the sense to
adopt america!!  Illegals still want to be known as mexicans!!! You
know those silly stupid gutless mexicans who allow corruption and filth
to be a way of life in mexico?? 
   We fought and died to eliminate that in America but you want to let
it back in here??

    They must be taught you dont embrace lawlessness, or corruption.
They have the biggest most violent gangs but imbeciles like you want to
import them by the boat load?????

     DID YOU KNOW THAT HEALTH CARE OFFICIALS HAVE RECENTLY HAD TO ADMIT
THERE ARE HUGE UP SPIKES IN THE INCIDENCE OF tb AND OTHER COMUNICABLE
DESEASES

 

   No one tells anyone who to worship or vote for, all we ask is they
care about america first but latinos want to stay mexicans and as far
as i am concerned they can stay mexican BUT DO IT IN MEXICO! NOT OUR
AMERICA!!!!

  I hope the first victim of a desease from aN ILLEGAL mexican who was
never vaccinated is someone you CARE ABOUT!!! jerk!!!!!    

   COPYRIGHT 2006 (MUST BE REPRINTED IN ITS COMPLETE FORM NO
PARAPHRASING OR PARTIAL REPRINTS)

__________________________________
  • http://protectanddefend.blogspot.com/ Publius

    But, if countries are like a country club, the U.S. allows more new members into their club than every other country club in the world combined. What other country in the world allows in over 400,000 new members a year while another 500,000 try to become members by climbing over the walls to get in?
    And Congress can not pass a law that would suspend free speech. In fact, the idea of preventing people from burning the American Flag would necessitate an Amendment to the Constitution because it would suspend free speech. So that example does not really work here either.
    Being against illegal-immigration is not same as being pro-WASP. Unless you believe the there are not Catholics who are anti-illegal immigration, nor anyone whose ancestral heritage is more than the tiny island of England, Scotland, and Wales.
    And Cinco de Mayo is not a religious celebration in the same way that St. Patrick’s Day is. St Patrick’s Day celebrates an Englishman who brought Christianity to Ireland and became the Patron Saint of Ireland. Cinco de Mayo celebrates a victory by Mexican forces over Napoleon’s Army. The problem is that once Napoleon found out he sent more soldiers and then defeated the Mexican forces and essentially turned Mexico into a French Colony. It would be similar to the Germans celebrating defeating the Polish in World War II and conveniently forgetting they lost the war. Nothing religious there.

    There are a lot of idiots on both side of this debate, but at the same time there is a tremendous misinformation campaign going on too. I simply want people to understand the issue and what is really at stake here.

  • http://www.arizonawatch.com BridgetB

    Hi Coyote, good post again but I am shocked to hear that you are an anarcho-caplitalist. I thought you beleived in a limited elected government established to protect and defend individual rights not some variant of competing systems of force! Hmmm. I wonder how open immigration fits into the anarchist model?

  • Max Lybbert

    /* But, if countries are like a country club, the U.S. allows more new members into their club than every other country club in the world combined. What other country in the world allows in over 400,000 new members a year while another 500,000 try to become members by climbing over the walls to get in?
    */

    The numbers are huge. OTOH, we have integrated all those people, so I don't see where the problem is.

    /* And Congress can not pass a law that would suspend free speech. In fact, the idea of preventing people from burning the American Flag would necessitate an Amendment to the Constitution because it would suspend free speech. So that example does not really work here either.
    */

    Actually, that was the point of the example. Quite simply, that Congress doesn't decide what your rights are, the laws written by Congress don't give you rights, but that Congress is limited (through the Constitution) from restricting the rights you already have.

    You'll notice the Bill of Rights doesn't say "the people are hereby granted the following rights," but rather "the people have the following rights, and Congress cannot infringe on them."

  • Frank Ch. Eigler

    > [...conservatives...] mock the those who support immigration

    You lost me right there. How is it not clear that these marches were all about *illegal* immigrants? Those mocking these marches are not against *immigration* per se, but the illegal ways celebrated by the marchers.

  • Tim Allen

    Coyote's post is right on the money, as is the example of congress passing a law preventing citizens from criticizing elected officials. In fact, The US actually passed that law before and appologized for it just today.
    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/14497780.htm
    They were called anti-sedition laws.

  • notafish

    Um... if the Mexican wasn't immunized, implying that they lack the immunizations which we have; how could someone you care about, presumably someone in the US with these immunizations, catch one of the diseases for which they have been immunized? You know, assuming, as I think the writer has, that immunizations work. Or am I missing something?