Comments on: Emergent Order and Barry Bond’s Records http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/05/emergent_order_.html Dispatches from a Small Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:39:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: MjrMjr http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/05/emergent_order_.html/comment-page-1#comment-2633 MjrMjr Tue, 30 May 2006 02:55:58 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/05/emergent_order_.html#comment-2633 <p>Interesting post. Re:Star naming, I'm with your friend. I could tell my girlfriend that I named the street we live on after her. Heck, maybe there's even someone with a radio commercial who's willing to sell me this "service" for $100 or so. Perhaps they'll give me a certificate, a plaque, and another random knickknack of my choice. But the sign at the corner of our street won't change. The sign on maps won't change. If I tell someone coming to my house that I live on "(my gf's name) Way" they won't be able to find me. Now if my gf was wheelchair bound, never left the house, and had no contact with the outside world maybe I could keep her totally in the dark. But I think, practically speaking(she works outside the home, has friends, and is really quite intelligent), she'd know the whole thing was a sham if I were to be foolish enough to attempt it. Similarly with the star naming... who does this company really think they're fooling? If someone were to "name" a star after me I'd question what that person thought of my own intelligence. Do they think that I couldn't figure out if it were valid. My guess is that the market for this "service" is more for folks who call in to Cleo the Psychic, not college educated professionals. </p> <p>Re:Barry, emergent or bottom up order is a great concept here. The fans will ultimately decide what's important. But on the other side of the coin, MLB is itself a business and any smart marketing department wants to try to get ahead of the curve, no? I'll grant you that triples are harder to hit and maybe there's some fans out there that view that as more interesting. But would anyone in the marketing department of MLB who suggested in the late 90s... 'hey we should ignore Mark, Sammy, and Barry, and do some promos about who will hit the most triples this year' still have a job now? My guess is no. The fans will judge the quality of the product and the relevance on the onfield actions, but marketing does matter. Leagues that promote their best teams, personalities, and stories are the most successful. I bet the NHL wouldn't have fallen off the map if Paul Tagliabue were a hockey man instead of a football guy. </p> Interesting post. Re:Star naming, I’m with your friend. I could tell my girlfriend that I named the street we live on after her. Heck, maybe there’s even someone with a radio commercial who’s willing to sell me this “service” for $100 or so. Perhaps they’ll give me a certificate, a plaque, and another random knickknack of my choice. But the sign at the corner of our street won’t change. The sign on maps won’t change. If I tell someone coming to my house that I live on “(my gf’s name) Way” they won’t be able to find me. Now if my gf was wheelchair bound, never left the house, and had no contact with the outside world maybe I could keep her totally in the dark. But I think, practically speaking(she works outside the home, has friends, and is really quite intelligent), she’d know the whole thing was a sham if I were to be foolish enough to attempt it. Similarly with the star naming… who does this company really think they’re fooling? If someone were to “name” a star after me I’d question what that person thought of my own intelligence. Do they think that I couldn’t figure out if it were valid. My guess is that the market for this “service” is more for folks who call in to Cleo the Psychic, not college educated professionals.

Re:Barry, emergent or bottom up order is a great concept here. The fans will ultimately decide what’s important. But on the other side of the coin, MLB is itself a business and any smart marketing department wants to try to get ahead of the curve, no? I’ll grant you that triples are harder to hit and maybe there’s some fans out there that view that as more interesting. But would anyone in the marketing department of MLB who suggested in the late 90s… ‘hey we should ignore Mark, Sammy, and Barry, and do some promos about who will hit the most triples this year’ still have a job now? My guess is no. The fans will judge the quality of the product and the relevance on the onfield actions, but marketing does matter. Leagues that promote their best teams, personalities, and stories are the most successful. I bet the NHL wouldn’t have fallen off the map if Paul Tagliabue were a hockey man instead of a football guy.

]]> By: Rob http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/05/emergent_order_.html/comment-page-1#comment-2632 Rob Thu, 25 May 2006 15:38:59 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/05/emergent_order_.html#comment-2632 <p>Understanding emerging properties of complex adaptive system<br /> is not usually something people grasp over night; although<br /> I think we all are aware of the effects on some level.<br /> The hardest part for people is getting over the fact<br /> that complex/evolved behaviors can emerge from simple<br /> objects with simple rules.</p> <p>You can consider our bodies as a complex adaptive system of cells.<br /> There is self-organization amoung the cells. Some cells have<br /> organized into tissue, organs, etc. The nervous system<br /> could be considered an emergent property of the self organizing system.</p> <p>Like this blog indicates... there are many who accept evolution<br /> of simple cells into complex organisms, but then they turn around<br /> and reject the notion of self-organization within the free market.</p> <p>It's very naive to think that a complex adaptive system can be controlled.<br /> In many cases, an external stimuli has more negative influence on the system<br /> which causes a reverse effect, or at best causes the system to reach<br /> the desired state slower than it would have naturally. That being said, it's<br /> hard to even know what the 'best' state of the system is before it happens.</p> <p>Prediction of emerging properites/behaviors is just as difficult, unless<br /> of course you are a "Nanny", then you automatically know what is best in<br /> the future.... </p> Understanding emerging properties of complex adaptive system
is not usually something people grasp over night; although
I think we all are aware of the effects on some level.
The hardest part for people is getting over the fact
that complex/evolved behaviors can emerge from simple
objects with simple rules.

You can consider our bodies as a complex adaptive system of cells.
There is self-organization amoung the cells. Some cells have
organized into tissue, organs, etc. The nervous system
could be considered an emergent property of the self organizing system.

Like this blog indicates… there are many who accept evolution
of simple cells into complex organisms, but then they turn around
and reject the notion of self-organization within the free market.

It’s very naive to think that a complex adaptive system can be controlled.
In many cases, an external stimuli has more negative influence on the system
which causes a reverse effect, or at best causes the system to reach
the desired state slower than it would have naturally. That being said, it’s
hard to even know what the ‘best’ state of the system is before it happens.

Prediction of emerging properites/behaviors is just as difficult, unless
of course you are a “Nanny”, then you automatically know what is best in
the future….

]]> By: Anon http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/05/emergent_order_.html/comment-page-1#comment-2631 Anon Thu, 25 May 2006 07:09:27 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/05/emergent_order_.html#comment-2631 <p>"In fact, this whole issue of emergent order vs. grand design is actually a point of incredible inconsistency in American politics. Observe certain liberals, strong secularists who reject the concepts of God and intelligent design in favor of evolution and bottom-up emergent order in the natural world, but then in turn reject emergent order in human relations and economics in favor of top-down not-so-intelligent design as run by the federal government."</p> <p>I don't really consider this inconsistent, since it ignores the role of science, and simplifies things too much. For example, at one level our nervous system is centralized (as seen in the acronym CNS), but the actual neural processing of the brain is probably bottom-up. So, if as a scientist I believe that evolution is bottom up, but resulted in some centralization (for example, we have one centralized blood pumping unit), then I'm inconsistent?</p> “In fact, this whole issue of emergent order vs. grand design is actually a point of incredible inconsistency in American politics. Observe certain liberals, strong secularists who reject the concepts of God and intelligent design in favor of evolution and bottom-up emergent order in the natural world, but then in turn reject emergent order in human relations and economics in favor of top-down not-so-intelligent design as run by the federal government.”

I don’t really consider this inconsistent, since it ignores the role of science, and simplifies things too much. For example, at one level our nervous system is centralized (as seen in the acronym CNS), but the actual neural processing of the brain is probably bottom-up. So, if as a scientist I believe that evolution is bottom up, but resulted in some centralization (for example, we have one centralized blood pumping unit), then I’m inconsistent?

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