Comments on: What if We Treated Other Purchases Like Health Care http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html Dispatches from a Small Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:39:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mark http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2379 Mark Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:38:24 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2379 <p>Garble, I would suggest that a market based system does a better job of being acceptable to a plurality of interested parties. Using food as an example, I can eat Thai food even if you hate it and much prefer Italian. But if there's only one provider of food, one of us is going to be upset.</p> <p>Isn't the best way to satisfy a plurailty of parties by providing more options? Doesn't the market have a much better track record of providing choices over a "single-payer"?</p> Garble, I would suggest that a market based system does a better job of being acceptable to a plurality of interested parties. Using food as an example, I can eat Thai food even if you hate it and much prefer Italian. But if there’s only one provider of food, one of us is going to be upset.

Isn’t the best way to satisfy a plurailty of parties by providing more options? Doesn’t the market have a much better track record of providing choices over a “single-payer”?

]]> By: Garble http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2378 Garble Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:36:10 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2378 <p>Eric, You misread my comment and made some ignorant assumptions because of that. I’m not proposing anything. I’m sorry to say that I don’t have a workable real world solution to healthcare that would be acceptable by a plurality of interested parties. I’m just pointing out that buying healthcare has many challenges that buying food does not. Therefore the analogy isn’t very appropriate. Also, some people are forced to buy insurance. There are a number of states that require car insurance to operate you vehicle. For instance. </p> Eric, You misread my comment and made some ignorant assumptions because of that. I’m not proposing anything. I’m sorry to say that I don’t have a workable real world solution to healthcare that would be acceptable by a plurality of interested parties. I’m just pointing out that buying healthcare has many challenges that buying food does not. Therefore the analogy isn’t very appropriate. Also, some people are forced to buy insurance. There are a number of states that require car insurance to operate you vehicle. For instance.

]]> By: Erik http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2377 Erik Wed, 01 Mar 2006 01:51:29 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2377 <p>Oh and Zoran, the difference is that no one is forcing employers or taxpayers to pay for the publics' "fire/earthquake/flood/theft insurance". We buy those things for our own benefit based on our own choice. The point of this article is that health insurance like any other insurance or expense shouldn't be forced on every person. People should buy it if they find it to be something they want to spend their money on. All you universal health care proponents have a lot to think about. The government sucks at accomplishing things compared to the free market. For example have you visited your local DMV recently? I am just so excited for the doctors office to turn into the DMV once the liberals have their way and make it taxpayer funded!!! (note sarcasm)</p> Oh and Zoran, the difference is that no one is forcing employers or taxpayers to pay for the publics’ “fire/earthquake/flood/theft insurance”. We buy those things for our own benefit based on our own choice. The point of this article is that health insurance like any other insurance or expense shouldn’t be forced on every person. People should buy it if they find it to be something they want to spend their money on. All you universal health care proponents have a lot to think about. The government sucks at accomplishing things compared to the free market. For example have you visited your local DMV recently? I am just so excited for the doctors office to turn into the DMV once the liberals have their way and make it taxpayer funded!!! (note sarcasm)

]]> By: Erik http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2376 Erik Wed, 01 Mar 2006 01:36:37 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2376 <p>I love the responses here... You have the typical liberal response by Garble reminding us how people are obviously too dumb to care for themselves, therefore the solution is of course taking money away from people and spending it as Garble and the other "enlightened" liberals see fit. Have fun in your socialistic little utopia. But let me spend my earned money wisely.</p> I love the responses here… You have the typical liberal response by Garble reminding us how people are obviously too dumb to care for themselves, therefore the solution is of course taking money away from people and spending it as Garble and the other “enlightened” liberals see fit. Have fun in your socialistic little utopia. But let me spend my earned money wisely.

]]> By: Zoran Lazarevic http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2375 Zoran Lazarevic Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:40:57 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2375 <p>Health Care is NOT like food or housing. That is the reason we have health **insurance**, much like we have fire/earthquake/flood/theft insurance.<br /> Food and housing have steady and predictable costs.</p> <p>A sensible (unlike the Sacramento Bee article) analysis of the health insurance problem is linked from Michale Gladwell's blog:<br /> http://gladwell.typepad.com/gladwellcom/2006/02/gladwell_v_gopn_1.html<br /> A very interesting read that raises all the points that Coyote has been making.</p> Health Care is NOT like food or housing. That is the reason we have health **insurance**, much like we have fire/earthquake/flood/theft insurance.
Food and housing have steady and predictable costs.

A sensible (unlike the Sacramento Bee article) analysis of the health insurance problem is linked from Michale Gladwell’s blog:
http://gladwell.typepad.com/gladwellcom/2006/02/gladwell_v_gopn_1.html
A very interesting read that raises all the points that Coyote has been making.

]]> By: Bob Smith http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2374 Bob Smith Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:41:12 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2374 <p>>If health care providers considered their patients as their customers,<br /> >the high costs could evaporate very quickly.</p> <p>Well, maybe. Remember one of drivers of cost is regulation. In most states you can't buy a minimal health plan. In some states all plans must be "cadillac" plans. In no state can a man decline maternity or "women's health" coverage. Such a premium differential would be sexist and unequal. You can be sure the insurance company is going to charge you for the services you don't want or can't use no matter how much you protest. In a few states (Maine immediately comes to mind) an insurance company must cover the applicant even if they haven't yet paid a premium. Needless to say health insurance premiums there are 3-4x higher than in other states.</p> >If health care providers considered their patients as their customers,
>the high costs could evaporate very quickly.

Well, maybe. Remember one of drivers of cost is regulation. In most states you can’t buy a minimal health plan. In some states all plans must be “cadillac” plans. In no state can a man decline maternity or “women’s health” coverage. Such a premium differential would be sexist and unequal. You can be sure the insurance company is going to charge you for the services you don’t want or can’t use no matter how much you protest. In a few states (Maine immediately comes to mind) an insurance company must cover the applicant even if they haven’t yet paid a premium. Needless to say health insurance premiums there are 3-4x higher than in other states.

]]> By: Max Lybbert http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2373 Max Lybbert Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:26:18 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2373 <p>Imagine a world where some surgeries and health care procedures are not covered by insurance, while others are. Which procedures would cost less over time, and which more? Well, it falls out pretty much how you'd expect (http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2004/11/seeing_is_belie.html ).</p> <p>I was veryhappy to see South Carolina propose that MediCare would pay out a lump sum to people diagnosed with different needs. When my son was born, my wife wanted to go to a midwife-run birthing center. The health insurance company wanted her to go to the hospital. Hospital deliveries cost $10,000, but the insurance would have covered all of it. Midwife deliveries cost $3,000, but the insurance company would only pay $2,000. We still went to the midwives, but I sure would love to see what would happen to the costs of deliveries if insurance companies and MediCare said "if you get pregnant, you're given $X for pre-natal care, and $8,000 for the delivery." My guess? Every doctor in the area would find a way to lower the $10,000 pricetag to $8,000. And my wife and I would pocket $5,000. That is, until the price dropped again.</p> <p>Say what you will about the high cost of health care and how an individual's bad luck determine his needs. If health care providers considered their patients as their customers, the high costs could evaporate very quickly.</p> Imagine a world where some surgeries and health care procedures are not covered by insurance, while others are. Which procedures would cost less over time, and which more? Well, it falls out pretty much how you’d expect (http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2004/11/seeing_is_belie.html ).

I was veryhappy to see South Carolina propose that MediCare would pay out a lump sum to people diagnosed with different needs. When my son was born, my wife wanted to go to a midwife-run birthing center. The health insurance company wanted her to go to the hospital. Hospital deliveries cost $10,000, but the insurance would have covered all of it. Midwife deliveries cost $3,000, but the insurance company would only pay $2,000. We still went to the midwives, but I sure would love to see what would happen to the costs of deliveries if insurance companies and MediCare said “if you get pregnant, you’re given $X for pre-natal care, and $8,000 for the delivery.” My guess? Every doctor in the area would find a way to lower the $10,000 pricetag to $8,000. And my wife and I would pocket $5,000. That is, until the price dropped again.

Say what you will about the high cost of health care and how an individual’s bad luck determine his needs. If health care providers considered their patients as their customers, the high costs could evaporate very quickly.

]]> By: honestpartisan http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2372 honestpartisan Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:57:20 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2372 <p>Following up on Garble's point, imagine a system where some people needed to eat a lot and some people didn't need to eat so much, so there were pools of insured to spread the risk of a sudden bout of hunger ... well, you get the point.</p> Following up on Garble’s point, imagine a system where some people needed to eat a lot and some people didn’t need to eat so much, so there were pools of insured to spread the risk of a sudden bout of hunger … well, you get the point.

]]> By: Garble http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2371 Garble Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:27:57 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2371 <p>What if we bought food like we would buy free market health care? I walk into the grocery store ravenously hungry and not making the most rational decisions due to hunger pains. I can’t comparison shop because I have to buy food right there or I’ll starve to death. To top it off I don’t know enough about nutrition to make the correct decision about what food I need. There are experts to help me but at the same time I’m trying to deal with my sudden hunger I’m also trying to make sure I don’t overpay for my professional help. </p> <p>I don't know what the solution is, but the analogy arguments aren't that persuasive.</p> What if we bought food like we would buy free market health care? I walk into the grocery store ravenously hungry and not making the most rational decisions due to hunger pains. I can’t comparison shop because I have to buy food right there or I’ll starve to death. To top it off I don’t know enough about nutrition to make the correct decision about what food I need. There are experts to help me but at the same time I’m trying to deal with my sudden hunger I’m also trying to make sure I don’t overpay for my professional help.

I don’t know what the solution is, but the analogy arguments aren’t that persuasive.

]]> By: TC http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html/comment-page-1#comment-2370 TC Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:07:28 +0000 http://coyote-blog.com/wordpress/2006/02/what_if_we_trea.html#comment-2370 <p>It's way too bad that we as citizens of this country allow our tax system to drive so much of our lives. </p> <p>This antiquated system needs to be dumped once and for all and forever! </p> <p>Let those purchasing finance the nation. </p> <p>fairtax.org</p> <p>Though I've even got some pretty darned good questions about some specific points of it, Once past the transistion, such seems to be a truly fair direction to go. </p> <p>Any thoughts?</p> It’s way too bad that we as citizens of this country allow our tax system to drive so much of our lives.

This antiquated system needs to be dumped once and for all and forever!

Let those purchasing finance the nation.

fairtax.org

Though I’ve even got some pretty darned good questions about some specific points of it, Once past the transistion, such seems to be a truly fair direction to go.

Any thoughts?

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